Paulfc Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hi, Can anyone please tell me where, or if indeed I can, purchase replacement parts including, in particular, R9 hoses for the Bosch pump and filter unit on my TR6? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BRINDUS44 Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 I recently bought some Cohline 2240 R9 spec from car builder solutions. https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/ethanol-proof-fuel-hose-12mm-id Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hi Paul, I use Gates Barricade for the high pressure hose from pump to prv, crimped with hydraulic ferrules on the fittings. After a long search I found a small company who had this on stock and sold me a length. Then a company who supplies hydraulic hoses crimped the ferrules, so quite an effort for a hose. I was not satisfied with the hoses supplied by the TR suppliers, in fact I used the fittings of a new hose but rejected the low quality braided thin wall hose that was crimped on. I informed the supplier and they indicated they would change their specification based on my findings. The low pressure Gates barricade hose can be sourced from Moss. Make sure the hose is suitable for E10, not just “suitable for unleaded”, and for the discharge side also suitable for the rated pressure AND temperature (it can get 40-50 C in the boot and near the engine, which reduces the maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP). Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Waldi said: Hi Paul, I use Gates Barricade for the high pressure hose from pump to prv, crimped with hydraulic ferrules on the fittings. After a long search I found a small company who had this on stock and sold me a length. Then a company who supplies hydraulic hoses crimped the ferrules, so quite an effort for a hose. I was not satisfied with the hoses supplied by the TR suppliers, in fact I used the fittings of a new hose but rejected the low quality braided thin wall hose that was crimped on. I informed the supplier and they indicated they would change their specification based on my findings. The low pressure Gates barricade hose can be sourced from Moss. Make sure the hose is suitable for E10, not just “suitable for unleaded”, and for the discharge side also suitable for the rated pressure AND temperature (it can get 40-50 C in the boot and near the engine, which reduces the maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP). Cheers, Waldi +1 . I can get the high pressure Gates Barricade in Australia. Before I could get the Barricade I would typically only get 2-3 years out of UK sourced R9 hose on Australian high octane unleaded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulfc Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Thanks everyone. Looks like I’m in for an interesting time replacing/uprating the fuel hoses. Is it safe to use circlips/hose clips as an alternative to crimping? Also, Waldi, do you recall the diameter of the pump to prv and filter to pump hoses? Again, many thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BRINDUS44 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 There is a past thread with the all the info somewhere - try a search via Google. One thing to note is that not all Bosch installations (Bosch pumps / filters) are the same. There are different variations of inlet /outlet fittings and diameters used. The Pump/PRV hose i.d. is 3/8" though. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Paul, I have a large SF2012 filter as suction filter, and the hoses to and from mach the tank outlet and pump inlet for my case, they are 10 or 12 mm ID. Have not had cavitation issues, also not with 31C fuel, but have driven limited distances only. I have machined a larger tank ferrule, with an ID of 8.5 mm instead of 6.5 which is std iirc. So tank to filter design is ok in my case (I feel), but I’m not happy with the 126 pump that draws 9 A and warms up the fuel rather quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 If you can find it you really need R14 Spec hose which is the best proof against everything your likely to come across in the way of fuel including Methanol! Gates Barracade is the best supplier. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Below information originates from the 2008 (old!) revision of SAE J30; so actual data may have changed but this is the most recent version I have: For low pressure low emission hose, you can use SAE J30 R14 (T1 or T2) For high pressure low emission hose, only use SAE J30 R12 (T1 or T2) SAEJ30R14 (low permeation for low pressure applications: SAEJ30R12T(1 or T2) for fule injection purposes, up to 145 PSI: Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulfc Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) Thanks again. I now feel I’m getting somewhere. Edited August 21, 2020 by Paulfc Correct spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I note my Gates Barricade fuel injection hose complies with R14, not R12. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Waldi said: I note my Gates Barricade fuel injection hose complies with R14, not R12. Waldi Which is what you want, thats the highest spec and suitable for all fuels including Methanol. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hi Stuart, certainly. I added this to my earlier post because the R12 spec is for higher pressure hoses, in the 2008 editions. As often with SAE and ASTM Specifications, they are revised periodically and also numbering can change. Not sure why R14 was for low pressure hoses initially, and what the latest revision of SAE J 30 describes. But if the pressure rating and temperature rating are correct, that’s what matters. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulfc Posted August 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I can’t find anyone offering R14 spec hoses, any guidance will be appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hi Paul, Gates Barricade for low pressure applications can be bought by Moss, but in one diameter only: https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/fuel-hose-gates-barricade-ethanol-proof-5-16-id-per-metre-gfh1031x.html For the high pressure application, here is a link to the Gates site: https://ww2.gates.com/dutch/brochure.cfm?brochure=12652&location_id=19084 Maybe you can give them a call? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) On 8/21/2020 at 9:42 AM, stuart said: If you can find it you really need R14 Spec hose which is the best proof against everything your likely to come across in the way of fuel including Methanol! Gates Barracade is the best supplier. Stuart. Hi Stuart, Have you found a source in the UK for 3/8" bore Gates Barricade Hose as I could not find one but that was 3 years ago? My hose came from Australia c/o of my cousin! Bruce. On 8/22/2020 at 11:22 AM, Waldi said: Hi Stuart, certainly. I added this to my earlier post because the R12 spec is for higher pressure hoses, in the 2008 editions. As often with SAE and ASTM Specifications, they are revised periodically and also numbering can change. Not sure why R14 was for low pressure hoses initially, and what the latest revision of SAE J 30 describes. But if the pressure rating and temperature rating are correct, that’s what matters. Cheers, Waldi There were 2 types offered in the USA one for carbs low pressure up to 50 psi and one for fuel injection up to 230 psi. I have used the PI version for 3 years with any problems! Bruce. Edited August 24, 2020 by astontr6 Spelling error s/r without Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, astontr6 said: Hi Stuart, Have you found a source in the UK for 3/8" bore Gates Barricade Hose as I could not find one but that was 3 years ago? My hose came from Australia c/o of my cousin! Bruce. There were 2 types offered in the USA one for carbs low pressure up to 50 psi and one for fuel injection up to 230 psi. I have used the PI version for 3 years with any problems! Bruce. PS should read 'without' any problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 I buy Gates Barricade from Repco in Australia. They home deliver here, maybe they will also deliver to the UK: https://www.repco.com.au/en/parts-service/fuel-ignition-exhaust/other-fuel-parts/gates-fuel-hose-9-5mm-3-8in-27341/p/A9440859 Freight wasn't excessive years ago, when I used to get UK fuel hose delivered to Australia, so I suppose the reciprocal transport cost is still reasonable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinC Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Since upgrading to modern E85 resistant hose a la Gates Barricade, I have been experienceing considerable grief in getting the low pressure feed from the tank to the bosch pump fuel tight. The various hose joints continue to weep very slightly however I clamp them. This is not an issue that I have previously encountered with older rubber hoses. The setup is basically a Prestige kit with a Bosch 909 type pump relocated to the rear wheelarch rather than inside the spare wheel well.. In particular the Bosch 909 pump has a 12mm inlet spigot and the 1/2" hose (nominally 12.7mm) is a fairly loose fit, so I guess it's not a huge surprise that it's not easy to get a fuel tight joint pulling it up with a jubilee clip. Curiously, the Bosch spec that I have for the 909 pump specifies the inlet connection as " 12mm (3/8"). Does that imply that the expectation is to force a 3/8" hose over the 12mm spigot ? What hose size do others use on the Bosch pumps with this connection ? Curious to know if anyone else has experienced this kind of issue with the Gates Barricade hose. Cheers, Robin C Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Where is the leak from? I have no problems using PTFE tape on the threaded joints and 2 jubilee clips on each rubber/metal joint with the jubilee screw heads spaced 180 degrees apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 5 hours ago, RobinC said: Since upgrading to modern E85 resistant hose a la Gates Barricade, I have been experienceing considerable grief in getting the low pressure feed from the tank to the bosch pump fuel tight. The various hose joints continue to weep very slightly however I clamp them. This is not an issue that I have previously encountered with older rubber hoses. The setup is basically a Prestige kit with a Bosch 909 type pump relocated to the rear wheelarch rather than inside the spare wheel well.. In particular the Bosch 909 pump has a 12mm inlet spigot and the 1/2" hose (nominally 12.7mm) is a fairly loose fit, so I guess it's not a huge surprise that it's not easy to get a fuel tight joint pulling it up with a jubilee clip. Curiously, the Bosch spec that I have for the 909 pump specifies the inlet connection as " 12mm (3/8"). Does that imply that the expectation is to force a 3/8" hose over the 12mm spigot ? What hose size do others use on the Bosch pumps with this connection ? Curious to know if anyone else has experienced this kind of issue with the Gates Barricade hose. Cheers, Robin C How old is your Bosch 909 pump and what is the full Bosch part number? As Malcom has not been using genuine Bosch pumps for a good number of years and has been using look a likes for at least 5 years or more? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 ask someone who makes up hoses to do you something for you with the correct threaded fitting crimped on? http://www.mocal.co.uk/products-hoses.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinC Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Quote How old is your Bosch 909 pump and what is the full Bosch part number? As Malcom has not been using genuine Bosch pumps for a good number of years and has been using look a likes for at least 5 years or more? Bruce, You are correct, the kit was originally supplied by Malcolm, probably 20 years ago, with a genuine Bosch 0 580 254 909 pump. However, I had to replace it several years back and was unable to source the same Bosch pump at the time, so the current pump is in fact a Sytec OTP020 which is physically identical with the 909. In particular, the input connection is a 12mm push-on spigot exactly as per the 909 pump ( refer to attached Bosh spec for the 909 ). Mike, I have no issues with the high pressure side, with the pump to PRV hose being braided PTFE hose as supplied by Malcolm ( together with diaphragm PRV .... ) On the low pressure side (Tank to Pump inlet) I am having problems getting both the Tank to pre-filter hose to seal to the 3/8 brass barb fitting on the pre-filter and also the pre-filter to pump hose to seal to the 12 mm pump input push-on connection. There is no immediately visible leak, but when left to stand for 24hrs there is an oily deposit left as a drip forming under the hose joints. ( It could be that the oily deposit orriginates from the lead replacement additive that I typically use ... ) The pump input connection is of particular concern due to the mismatch between the 1/2" hose and the 12mm spigot. I have it all in pieces again at the moment to try again with fresh hose and maybe double jubilee clips. Thanks, Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spit_2.5PI Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Robin, if you really are using a Jubilee-style hose clamp then that may be your problem. In my experience they don't apply a uniform compression around a hose. Worse still, they're absolutely pants if you re-use them. I would suggest you try a pukka fuel hose clip or, if you can get one small enough, a Mikalor-style clamp. Of course Jubilee do make both fuel-hose clips and Mikalor-style clips, so apologies if you were referring to the brand not the style! Cheers, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Richard could well be correct, the large flat area on the simple Jubilee clips does not always enable a good seal. Off course, a slightly oversizes fuel hose does not help either. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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