john.r.davies Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) It wasn't clear, Aston, from the pic that the rubber wasn't 'blistered', but the diaphragm was made up of three layers of rubber, not glued together, but held by the central fixture. But clearly, the part exposed to fuel had been stretched - maybe by the pressure as well - and when disassembled the layers didn't lie flat, as in the replacements. And thank your for the Viton A and B classification, which I had wot not of! That led me to the Wiki page that lists FOUR types! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viton My only reason for going for this type of PRV was the ease of adjusting the pressure, when the OE valve needs to be dismantled to do so. JohnC - another test! Why not, I'll give it a try. Being self-isolated for my age, I've plenty of time to fill! John Edited March 17, 2020 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Have you tested the volts John (see my post above) Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 11:47 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Hi John, I am now tripping down memory lane.....All these ideas we mulled over or tried 40 years ago. I recall the main complaint about the Lucas pump assembly being the motor not the pump part. So can you get a suitable power brushless DC motor and attach it to a Lucas geared pump? The other issue with the Lucas pump installation in aTR was the vertical orientation fitment in a confined airless space. The motor armature thrust being taken by the pump gears is a rubbish design. Cool the motor, lay it down, beef it up and you could be on to a winner. There was a car with twin Lucas pumps to try to reduce the load on the motors. The outlet size to the pumps was important or they just screamed. The Bosch pumps required a large fuel flow at the inlet, greater than the standard Lucas which is addressed by additional or larger tank outlets. The Facet priming pump was a good option, which you have adopted. A reservation was main pump demand exceeding Facet supply but you have addressed that too. Pierburg pumps were tried but I do not recall them surpassing the Bosch units. The idea that Bosch was the magic bullet was misplaced as the Bosch system is said to be hyper sensitive to any water ingress in the fuel causing corrosion to any component. Cheers Peter W I use the Bosch 972 pump as specified by Bosch in 1985 by a Bosch engineer who had aTR6. This pump is a diesel Merc pump which has no problem of pumping up to 150 psi and on my car has a low running current of 7amps. When originally fitted I had to unscrew the PRV setting some what as my calibrated psi gauge was showing over 130psi. Its been working for over 40 years so in my opinion Bosch is the way to go? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Waldi, I have ignition live feed to a relay at the pump, gives 12.5V at the pump, drops to 10 when it runs, but so it does at the battery - it's using a lot. Aston, My original supplier told me that Bosch no longer make a suitbale pump - moderns run of only 40psi or so. unless direct injection, and they use a mechanicla booster. No doubt yours is the real thing! I took the pump out today, and sent it off to be tested. What drained out of the pump was strongly discoloured, dark but not rusty. I'll report on the result. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 John, Ever thought of going the whole hog and fitting a Lucas mechanical pump from Kinsler after starting on the electric? Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: Waldi, I have ignition live feed to a relay at the pump, gives 12.5V at the pump, drops to 10 when it runs, but so it does at the battery - it's using a lot. Aston, My original supplier told me that Bosch no longer make a suitbale pump - moderns run of only 40psi or so. unless direct injection, and they use a mechanicla booster. No doubt yours is the real thing! I took the pump out today, and sent it off to be tested. What drained out of the pump was strongly discoloured, dark but not rusty. I'll report on the result. John Hi John, When my engine was rebuilt 2 1/2years ago, I enquired about a new pump of the same part number from a main Bosch dealer. I was quoted 26 weeks delivery? Apparently Merc. had forced Bosch to produce an order of 500 off for the UK market, as customers were still requiring them for there old diesel Mercs so I bought one as a safe guard. But there had been a change of part number to :0-580-254-952. Yes it is a direct injection pump. Unfortunately I cannot remember their name of the supplier. But I am still looking? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 I have a new original Bosch pump, next day delivery from my local car parts shop, around 100 euro. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Alan, Gosh, never thought of (?knew of?) those. But you say, "after starting from electric". Does one need an electric pump for starting? That would rather spoil the idea, wouldn't it? Bruce, nice history, but .... if no longer available! Waldi, Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar? So what's the Part No.? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 There's no intrinsic problem with Bosch pumps and there's a few models do this duty, with prices all over the place. Waldi's bought one recently so he knows the current market. But are you sure you've solved the underlying problem? Fixing the 10V at the battery with the engine running could be worth a look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Waldi, Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar? So what's the Part No.? John Hi John, see my post from March 10, it’s in there and why I selected it. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Ah, So! Thank you, Waldi! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 14 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Alan, Gosh, never thought of (?knew of?) those. But you say, "after starting from electric". Does one need an electric pump for starting? That would rather spoil the idea, wouldn't it? Bruce, nice history, but .... if no longer available! Waldi, Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar? So what's the Part No.? John John, They are still for sale on the internet!!!!!! at £100 to £ 200! as per last night. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Where, please, Aston? Lots of "Bosch fuel pumps" on sale, but even Google can't find any labelled "0580.464.126" as specified by Waldi. And few say what pressure they are rated for, those that do aren't as high as 100psi/6.5bar. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: Where, please, Aston? Lots of "Bosch fuel pumps" on sale, but even Google can't find any labelled "0580.464.126" as specified by Waldi. And few say what pressure they are rated for, those that do aren't as high as 100psi/6.5bar. John John, Enter Bosch part number and description to find? There are a lot more sites selling this this pump than when I looked last night. Example buycarparts.co.uk @ £191.79 or Mister Auto @ £137.00. for 0-580-254-952. A point to note is that some have screw terminals or socket terminals. Screw is preferred but you can easierly over come the socket terminals, these are for Ford cars. therefore ask before you buy. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Why not buy these 2, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR6-Pi-Fuel-Pump/174221498324?hash=item28906917d4:g:LZQAAOSwfbxebpDo John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 John L, thanks, but it's long way from me, it's for a Vitesse so no need for originality, and I don't want the uncertainty of a well used Lucas pump! While I do have the uncertainty of a doubtful Bosch! Aston, Ah! Translation difficulty, I think. Waldi used stops, Continental usage? While hyphens hit the spot for Google! I don't doubt Waldi's recommendation, but I'd like to see the rated pressure listed on those, and most don't. And anyway, they are all "out of stock"! I've taken mine out and sent it off for a test. What drained from the pump and filter was dark stained fuel, but not rusty. ??? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, john.r.davies said: John L, thanks, but it's long way from me, it's for a Vitesse so no need for originality, and I don't want the uncertainty of a well used Lucas pump! While I do have the uncertainty of a doubtful Bosch! Aston, Ah! Translation difficulty, I think. Waldi used stops, Continental usage? While hyphens hit the spot for Google! I don't doubt Waldi's recommendation, but I'd like to see the rated pressure listed on those, and most don't. And anyway, they are all "out of stock"! I've taken mine out and sent it off for a test. What drained from the pump and filter was dark stained fuel, but not rusty. ??? John John, Get on to Bosch at Denham in the UK, their automotive technical division and they will email you their pressure chart, for that pump. I have found them very helpful in the past. Also you can speak to Glencoe in Staines who supply a pump, it is not a Bosch one but a substitute type to the PI Saloon car boys, they swear by them. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Thank you, Aston! Most helpful! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Hi John, Here is a copy of the box, as said, I got it from another Dutch TR-er (Ben), and he is happy with is. If you were you I would seriously consider to make your sismplem simpler. What happens if your booster pump is erratic? Or one or 2 of the upstream filters get (partially) blocked? Woudl be able to silate the error? Cheers, Waldi Found this for you:)https://www.interexmotorsport.com/product/bosch-0-580464126-inline-fuel-pump/ Edited March 18, 2020 by Waldi added link Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 And thank you, Waldi! That's a different number to the one you quoted before. I've followe Aton's advice and asked both Bosch and Glencoe for details. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Hi John, Yes, I should have removed the dots in 0580.464.126 Sorry for the confusion. If you PM ne your mail adress I will send you the curves, but you can find them on the www. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6TR Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 On 3/6/2020 at 8:31 PM, Waldi said: Hi John, My old 996 pump was leaking fuel through the electrical connection point after 3 years of (dry) storage. But that is a different failure off course. I replaced it by a new (different, more current) Bosch pump. Waldi Hi Waldi, what pump did you replace it with? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 I have the .xxx.126 pump pictured above. It’s not a perfect replacement for the xx.996 pump, as it has a higher flow and current draw but it works ok. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 I made this comparison when I selected mine: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRier Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Waldi said: I made this comparison when I selected mine: Does that 0580.464.126 work with a max delivery pressure of 5 bar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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