PI Fuel pump failure

[Waldi]

No, this is what the curve says, but they can supply more pressure.

And my name is
Waldi

[astontr6]

On 3/9/2020 at 9:19 AM, jogger321 said:

I purchased a pump set up from Malcolm of Prestige (now retired) a couple of years ago.... Working great but I understand not a Bosch pump anymore...Any ideas which pump should I ever need a replacement?

Hi Jogger!

The PI car boys go to company in Staines called Glencoe they supply them with a Sytec pump OTP019. I have not used this pump but have used a Bosch 0580254952 for years. This was the original pump that Martin's / KMI injection used as a substitute for the Lucas pump 40 + years ago in their Kit, as per Bosch. It does not have a problem with 100+ PSI as it is a Merc. diesel pump. Will work up to 150 psi! But they can be difficult to track down?

Bruce.

[john.r.davies]

In the past, I too went to Malcolm at Prestige, for advice and Pi parts.  Now, with his retirement, the business has been taken over by Karl at TR Trader https://www.trtrader.com/ who continues to be a source of knowledge and good parts. 

John (No connection, except as a satisfied customer) 

[iani]

9 hours ago, astontr6 said:

Hi Jogger!

The PI car boys go to company in Staines called Glencoe they supply them with a Sytec pump OTP019. I have not used this pump but have used a Bosch 0580254952 for years. This was the original pump that Martin's / KMI injection used as a substitute for the Lucas pump 40 + years ago in their Kit, as per Bosch. It does not have a problem with 100+ PSI as it is a Merc. diesel pump. Will work up to 150 psi! But they can be difficult to track down?

Bruce.

TRGB used to supply the Sytec OTP019 in their conversion kit, its the one I have in my TR6 (although EFI now & only 43psi) it worked fine with my PI setup once the pressure was reduced to 96psi as per Gary Bates' instructions to stop resonation.

[Kenrow]

Looks like TRGB uses the Sytec OTP020. I believe the others are using the OTP019. Pretty much the same flow rate, the 020 is about 20mm shorter.

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Kenrow
added info

[astontr6]

4 hours ago, iani said:

TRGB used to supply the Sytec OTP019 in their conversion kit, its the one I have in my TR6 (although EFI now & only 43psi) it worked fine with my PI setup once the pressure was reduced to 96psi as per Gary Bates' instructions to stop resonation.

But was your resonation caused by you using one Malcom's 3000 psi PTFE smooth bore hoses which I complained to him about 10 years ago which was unsuitable and should have been the convoluted type and have a max working pressure of 250 psi. This type of hose is not a harmonic generator like the smooth bore is.  The convolutes brake up the pulse frequency from the Bosch or similar design pumps to stop the PRV valve banging on its seating.

Bruce. 

[astontr6]

4 hours ago, Kenrow said:

Looks like TRGB uses the Sytec OTP020. I believe the others are using the OTP019. Pretty much the same flow rate, the 020 is about 20mm shorter.

 

That is a very neat installation!

Bruce.

[iani]

17 hours ago, astontr6 said:

But was your resonation caused by you using one Malcom's 3000 psi PTFE smooth bore hoses which I complained to him about 10 years ago which was unsuitable and should have been the convoluted type and have a max working pressure of 250 psi. This type of hose is not a harmonic generator like the smooth bore is.  The convolutes brake up the pulse frequency from the Bosch or similar design pumps to stop the PRV valve banging on its seating.

Bruce. 

I never bought anything from Malcolm Bruce, I did fit the braided hose from RTR which was supposed to stop resonation. The sound I had was coming from the OTP019 itself, it was set to 106psi and it hammered, reducing it to 96psi as per Gary's instructions stopped the noise.

[CP26309]

So...the Bosch pump is even more problematic than the original Lucas pump then? My Lucas pump has only let me down once in 50 years! That was back in the summer of 1972 when I drove the length of France in one day...The following morning it screeched...and stopped! I took it apart...cleaned the commutator, and it worked again! Tricky bit was keeping the points apart...which was achieved with two lengths of cotton...as the motor assemble was lowered into position! Back home I was told by Lucas to fit their 'International Cooling Kit'! Which as we all know is just a coil of metal fuel pipe...Well it works...and I haven't had any bother with it since! The best solution really is to remount the pump sideways like Triumph did in the P1 Saloons boot...Or at least add an internal cool duct or pipe, that picks up airflow from the underside of the wheel arch. 

[CharlieBubbles]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, john.r.davies said:

In the past, I too went to Malcolm at Prestige, for advice and Pi parts.  Now, with his retirement, the business has been taken over by Karl at TR Trader https://www.trtrader.com/ who continues to be a source of knowledge and good parts. 

John (No connection, except as a satisfied customer) 

+1

[6TR]

On a related point, I believe that Triumph beefed up the wiring to the pump from 1973 onwards by running two wires. 

[astontr6]

30 minutes ago, 6TR said:

On a related point, I believe that Triumph beefed up the wiring to the pump from 1973 onwards by running two wires. 

They beefed up the single + wire in the summer of 1972 but I do not known about the - wire. I beefed up my earth wire when I went to a Bosch pump,  to cut down volt drop but the real cure for me is to use the 18ACR alternator which generates those extra amps. I have used one for 50 years.

Bruce.

18 hours ago, CP26309 said:

So...the Bosch pump is even more problematic than the original Lucas pump then? My Lucas pump has only let me down once in 50 years! That was back in the summer of 1972 when I drove the length of France in one day...The following morning it screeched...and stopped! I took it apart...cleaned the commutator, and it worked again! Tricky bit was keeping the points apart...which was achieved with two lengths of cotton...as the motor assemble was lowered into position! Back home I was told by Lucas to fit their 'International Cooling Kit'! Which as we all know is just a coil of metal fuel pipe...Well it works...and I haven't had any bother with it since! The best solution really is to remount the pump sideways like Triumph did in the P1 Saloons boot...Or at least add an internal cool duct or pipe, that picks up airflow from the underside of the wheel arch. 

My Bosch pump has worked for over 40 years! I have never had the harmonic banging because I worked in the death and destruction market where we suppled the Aerospace Industry and the MOD. I was using PTFE hoses 40+ years ago long before Malcom did?

Bruce. 

[CP26309]

2 hours ago, astontr6 said:

They beefed up the single + wire in the summer of 1972 but I do not known about the - wire. I beefed up my earth wire when I went to a Bosch pump,  to cut down volt drop but the real cure for me is to use the 18ACR alternator which generates those extra amps. I have used one for 50 years.

Bruce.

My Bosch pump has worked for over 40 years! I have never had the harmonic banging because I worked in the death and destruction market where we suppled the Aerospace Industry and the MOD. I was using PTFE hoses 40+ years ago long before Malcom did?

Bruce. 

So it is 'Rocket Science'! 

[astontr6]

2 hours ago, CP26309 said:

So it is 'Rocket Science'! 

Unfortunately this gives me a big advantage over those who do not have the knowledge of high tech. materials. I have used this knowledge in other trouble some areas on my TR! I believe in quality replacement parts??

Bruce.