John Morrison Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 Hi all, since the demise of lead replacement petrol, I.ve used the above, See its not now branded as Castrol, but classic valvemasterplus, my question is does it have a shelf life? I have a number of unopened bottles I have had for some time, perhaps years, its too expensive to chuck, if it still works, anybody know? John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 Dunno for sure, but if it dissolves in petrol and there's no sludge in the bottom of the container it should work OK. IIRC it works by depositing a film of sodium on the ev seats and sodium itself wont go off. Its the organic component that makes the sodium soluble in fuel that might go off. Im not convinced that TRs are at risk of valve seat recession, in normal road driving. Have yet to see a report on here. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 John I use this millers product and it does have a shelf life I think 12months. And the bottle is dated. http://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/vspe-power-plus-multishot/624 Yours May be similar and may say on the bottle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HSM Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 I think the Millers product contains ferrocene that may have a shelf life. Peter C. may be able to confirm. As for valve seat recession one of my customers covered 60,OOO mls in a Ford Cortina ( cast iron head) before no. 4 exhaust seat suffered recession. Harvey S. Maitland Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brian -r Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 I checked the three bottles of valvemasterplus I have left , no indicated shelf life or date stamp. Most other products lurking in the garage with a shelf life have a date stamp on them either manufacture date or use by date I feel pretty sure it should still be good to use. I only add it to every fourth fill and in the eight years I've had the car had no problems so far ( shouldn't have said that should I ) Bri Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 hours ago, HSM said: I think the Millers product contains ferrocene that may have a shelf life. Peter C. may be able to confirm. As for valve seat recession one of my customers covered 60,OOO mls in a Ford Cortina ( cast iron head) before no. 4 exhaust seat suffered recession. Harvey S. Maitland Harvey, Millers VSP contains manganese as the active ingredient. its made soluble by conjugaiton with an organic molecule that is unstable, especially in light, Whic is why it is sold in black bottles. It is toxic stuff, as the bottle states, so we are careful handling the bottle. But it is all too easy to forget wehn working on fuelling that it is in the petrol. I used it briefly to boost octane, but stopped because of the risk to the brain ('manganism resembles Parkinson's). The risk may be overstated, Canadian petrol at one time replaced lead with Mn and we havent had ( yet?) an upsurge of brain damage AFAIK. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 5 hours ago, HSM said: I think the Millers product contains ferrocene that may have a shelf life. Peter C. may be able to confirm. As for valve seat recession one of my customers covered 60,OOO mls in a Ford Cortina ( cast iron head) before no. 4 exhaust seat suffered recession. Harvey S. Maitland Yep the stuff I had did. It leaves iron deposits on the plugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, DRD said: Yep the stuff I had did. It leaves iron deposits on the plugs. Are you sure? Manganese leaves pinkish deposits. Ferrocene oxidises during combusiton to rust particles that are atrocious for ring/bore wear. I doubt Millers would risk that. Plug photos: http://article.sapub.org/10.5923.j.ijee.20180803.03.html Peter Edited August 5, 2019 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said: Are you sure? Manganese leaves pinkish deposits. Ferrocene oxidises during combusiton to rust particles that are atrocious for ring/bore wear. I doubt Millers would risk that. Plug photos: http://article.sapub.org/10.5923.j.ijee.20180803.03.html Peter Hi Peter, Yes positive if I can find the photo of the bottle I'll post it again. I'm sure I posted it a few years ago. Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, DRD said: Hi Peter, Yes positive if I can find the photo of the bottle I'll post it again. I'm sure I posted it a few years ago. Darren Here it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 16 hours ago, DRD said: Here it is. Darren, Tks, didnt know that. Looks like Millers have stopped using manganese, which is wise.. On your label: the potassium compound is for protecting the ev seat, The ferrocene is an octane booster. I was very interested in octane boosters for supercharging, but ruled ferrocene out because of its effect on increasing bore wear in particular. I would not in short let ferrocene anywhere near an engine: ferrocene is like adding rust particles to the cylinders. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Why is it wise to stop using manganese Peter? I have a couple of bottles of the Redex lead substitute, which I believe to be manganese based. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, stillp said: Why is it wise to stop using manganese Peter? I have a couple of bottles of the Redex lead substitute, which I believe to be manganese based. Pete Pete, Mn is a neurotoxin. Handle that neat stuff with care, and dont forget its in the petrol so wear gloves. It will mostly come out the exhaust so dont work in a garage with engine running. That said, it is a cumulative effect so a couple of bottles handled responsibly are most unlikely to induce manganism, similar to Parkinson's. My comment was intended that globally spraying tons of Mn into our environment is not a good idea. But before you switch to ferrocene as an octane booster, there is emerging evidence that nanosized iron particles from brake discs and bore wear are getting into the brain of city dwellers. https://theconversation.com/how-we-discovered-a-possible-link-between-car-exhausts-and-alzheimers-64779 To me it looks like a smoking gun, with wide potential health effects, barely yet explored. And ferrocene in the fuel will add enormous numbers of iron particulates to the exhaust. Fortunately both Mn and Fe poiosn cat converters so are banned from pump fuels in the west. Peter Edited August 6, 2019 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Speaking of octane, does anyone happen to know what RON was available at the pumps in '59? Curious to know what my 3A would've been inhaling originally. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, Deggers said: Speaking of octane, does anyone happen to know what RON was available at the pumps in '59? Curious to know what my 3A would've been inhaling originally. Cheers, Deggers "Cleveland Discol" was an ethanol-rich pump petrol ( and may have had some methanol too). What goes around comes around.... " National Benzole" was another high octane pump petrol with lots of benzene. Benzene is a potent carcinogen long banned. But known now to be a risk to petrol pump attendants. Not to mention generous doping with TEL . https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-1934/48/alcohol-fuel-high-compression-engines But there's no reason why a TR would have needed these high octane fuels. Unless the compression had been raised. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said: But there's no reason why a TR would have needed these high octane fuels. Unless the compression had been raised. Thanks for that Peter, interesting link to the MSM Archive article too. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Deggers said: Thanks for that Peter, interesting link to the MSM Archive article too. Cheers, Deggers So your TR may have had E25 in its tank long ago ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 As you say Peter, what goes around comes around. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Deggers, Beware of professors shouting instructions from the roof . That one forgot to mention that alcohol wrecks terne-metal fuel tanks. Did TRs in that period use terne ? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted September 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2019 Hi all, just to wrap up this thread, over about 3,000mls in just over two weeks, earlier this month, I used recently bought Valvemaster Plus, and 'Old Stock,' Valvemaster Plus, without any decernable difference in performance. I would conlude therefore that my 'old Stock,' Valvenaster Plus is still functinal. Thanks for the contributions, John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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