TR NIALL Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 If you haven’t got the Lock Nuts on that’s half the Problem as the Vibration will loosen the Rods and upset everything,you also need a decent Airflow Meter to balance the Throttle Bodies or again your wasting your time as the Car will never run right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) If you haven’t got the Lock Nuts on that’s half the Problem as the Vibration will loosen the Rods and upset everything,you also need a decent Airflow Meter to balance the Throttle Bodies or again your wasting your time as the Car will never run right. There is not enough room on the centre shaft for a locknut, I assume this is why the garage that fitted them removed all six. I do have some nuts but, as I say, there is not enough room to even fit one on the centre rod, I have used loctite however. Edited June 21, 2018 by iani Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jah Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 There is not enough room on the centre shaft for a locknut, I assume this is why the garage that fitted them removed all six. I do have some nuts but, as I say, there is not enough room to even fit one on the centre rod, I have used loctite however. Ian You definately need the locknuts fitted as per TrNial & all the rods should be the same length.Can you cut centre one & weld a piece in to make it longer (just a thought). Also check the Air valve is not allowing air past when its closed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Ian You definately need the locknuts fitted as per TrNial & all the rods should be the same length.Can you cut centre one & weld a piece in to make it longer (just a thought). Also check the Air valve is not allowing air past when its closed. If I made the rod longer the revs would go up, I have glued the air valve in place and don’t believe it is the source of any leak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Can you post a picture of this linkage? Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I can’t believe the rod(s) are expanding that much to open the throttles. Say a 50-100deg temperature rise a 6 inch steel rod will ‘grow’ something like just about over 0.002” to 0.004” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 It is an interesting (and not unique problem).. I had exactly the same issue on mine a couple of years ago.. could adjust the rods for a lovely idle cold of say 800 rpm. Once warmed up it got to 1500 rpm (while with the rods disconnected the car would stall). then if I was brave (it is hot down there!) I could adjust the linkages to give an idle of 800-900rpm hot, but that meant they were hopelessly out of sync when cold. Became a bit academic when I replaced it with the supercharger. On reflection I wonder whether it was a result of the throttle bodies not being aligned with one another and differential expansion of the whole lot putting things out of whack! Cheers Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I can’t believe the rod(s) are expanding that much to open the throttles. Say a 50-100deg temperature rise a 6 inch steel rod will ‘grow’ something like just about over 0.002” to 0.004” I don’t have the problem with the engine cold, I don’t have the problem with the rods disconnected and the engine hot, the rods, or some other part of the linkage, are/is expanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Here is a picture of my CP linkage, with the Pheonix manifold and underslung linkage, also with the ball jointed rods, I havent had any trouble with setting the idle, how does this compare to your setup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Hi Ian, If you touch the throttle cable or fast idle cable ( move it out by say 0.5 mm or bend them a bit) , does the engine speed raise when hot (that should not be the case)? Keep digging. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 My linkage: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Hi Ian, If you touch the throttle cable or fast idle cable ( move it out by say 0.5 mm or bend them a bit) , does the engine speed raise when hot (that should not be the case)? Keep digging. Waldi Hi Waldi, There is free play on both cables so no, it doesn't change the speed, the fast idle cam is purely decorative, the profile is wrong Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Here is a picture of my CP linkage, with the Pheonix manifold and underslung linkage, also with the ball jointed rods, I havent had any trouble with setting the idle, how does this compare to your setup. Yours looks like the original linkage John, unfortunately mine was replaced by a new version. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Are you absolutely certain that those throttle bodies are perfectly aligned with each other? It may be the angle the photo was taken at but.....Looking at the pictures the aft one looks like it needs to be tapped clockwise a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Iani There are a few things I can see that are different to mine. I have stop screws on each spindle, this will allow you to set the airflow for each body without the rods attached. The screw on the choke needs to be wound in further, as this will you to lengthen the ball joint rods. Also the adjusting screw in the centre should only have a minimum gap, this will be used later to increase the idle speed of all the bodies, once the rods are set. Hope that may you now get it running properly, you need a good airflow meter, to set the butterflies first of all. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Iani There are a few things I can see that are different to mine. I have stop screws on each spindle, this will allow you to set the airflow for each body without the rods attached. The screw on the choke needs to be wound in further, as this will you to lengthen the ball joint rods. Also the adjusting screw in the centre should only have a minimum gap, this will be used later to increase the idle speed of all the bodies, once the rods are set. Hope that may you now get it running properly, you need a good airflow meter, to set the butterflies first of all. John John, The fast idle screw is doing nothing, the cam is the wrong profile, the screw never touches it. The centre adjusting screw does have a very small gap. Two people have tried setting the butterflies to no avail, the stretching rods just screw up the settings, one attempt at setting the airflow correctly saw me being recovered after a 5k idle! (after a few miles driving). I just wish I had the original linkage and could follow the standard setup procedure, something is wrong with my setup and none of the people who have looked at it can see what it is. Things are improving, I have just taken the car for a 25 mile run and it's idling at 1300 now, close but still not right. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ian,I see you have an aftermarket Manifold fitted so have I,when I fitted my underslung Linkage the Centre Rod was fouling on the Manifold so I had to hit the Manifold with the Ballend of a Hammer to put an indent into it so the Linkage could work properly,is this why your Centre Rod was Cut Short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ian,I see you have an aftermarket Manifold fitted so have I,when I fitted my underslung Linkage the Centre Rod was fouling on the Manifold so I had to hit the Manifold with the Ballend of a Hammer to put an indent into it so the Linkage could work properly,is this why your Centre Rod was Cut Short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 No idea Niall, unfortunately I had it fitted by a garage, this has been the cause of a few of the issues ive had, they let an apprentice loose on it and he isnt very good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 I've come in a little late here and maybe havnt read everything. Forgive me if I am sticking my oar in. But simply put The metering unit works on vacum and that is controlled by the the engine sucking. 99% Its in the linkage. Simply as others have suggested. Take the air box off and see if at idle the butterflies are closed. If they are and the car is still reving then you have a vacum leak The rest is in how much the butterflies are open. But if the butterflies are closed or near at idle then the revs cant be coming from there, the metering unit has to get its draw from somewhere. So first asses the butterflies and after where air is getting in. After which you can trace back. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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