Chris59 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Hello guys, I've a small problem with Badfrog's TR4, Lady Anne : her cam followers are noisy, and, now that the head is removed (the engine head, not mine, although my wife is tempted to do so), It's easy to check their condition. If you have a look at the attached pictures, some sorts of scars can be seen, but I don't feel anything when I'm touching them. Some important information : I don't know from where Jef sourced these followers, but the camshaft is from Kastner, and the rockers are the alloy, roller type. Edit : for unknown reasons, I can't post the other pictures. Edited September 30, 2015 by Chris59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Well, it seems that none of the 100+ guys who have read this thread do know why these cam followers are so noisy..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Chris, When I changed my cam and followers the followers looked a lot cleaner and smoother than yours. The wearing faces were shot to pieces though. Yours are definitely not right. What's the condition of the follower bores in the block? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 As above. Looks to me that they're rocking in their bores in the block. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LGFromage Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Any rocking in the bores could be caused by the valve springs being too strong. As a matter of interest are the valve springs standard or uprated? Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I would have thought the followers might rock if they were too loose in the bores. I have an engine in bits at the moment and although a couple of followers (and the cam) are showing signs of wear, the sides of the followers are fine. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Chris, when you say the followers are noisy, what sort of noise, and why do you suspect it's from the cam followers? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) if the camshaft has been replaced it is likely that the valves and springs have also been toyed with in which case uprated followers with a hole for better oil passage would have been recommended... Edited October 1, 2015 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hello guys, thanks for your inputs. @ Pete, as far as I can see (and feel with my fingers), the bores in the block seems to be good (the followers move without excessive resistance or play), but I'll have a closer look this week end. I have 3 spare wet liners engines in stock, so it shouldn't be too difficult to compare. @ Pete (Stillp), that's only a question of experience, I know that the noise come from the followers. @ Tim, I can't tell the sort of springs who are used. Please do not forget that, unfortunatly, Badfrog is not with us anymore, so he can't give me more details. BTW, they are certainly far more strong than original springs ! Again, I can compare this week end, if time allow. @ Stef, these followers are already uprated/drilled models. Although they look to be damaged, they are not really : their surface is discoloured, and present some "evidences" of wear or lubrification problems, but is perfectly smooth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Chris They have been running dry look elsewhere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) @ Stef, these followers are already uprated/drilled models. Although they look to be damaged, they are not really : their surface is discoloured, and present some "evidences" of wear or lubrification problems, but is perfectly smooth. The wear pattern suggests that a tangential force is applied on top and bottom of the follower which in turn would suggest that the combination cam/follower/pushrod/spring is not adequate. Edited October 1, 2015 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Nothing wrong there; phosphated followers showing minute scuffs. Polish & replace as long as the faces are true. Flex-Hone their bores if you like; desirable. If noise is the primary issue, this is NOT the cause. Check those feeler gauges- metric or imperial? Every camshaft/tappet problem is caused by installation or associated issues, NOT materials, period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AGR 441 B Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Had this same problem earlier in the year after fitting a rebuilt engine. Noise at `tick over` sounded like loose tappets but heavier and lower down the block. I had fitted the Moss light weight short cam followers with oil drain hole. Stripped head off and found similar marks to those shown above. Given that these blocks are some 50 years old and should be well worn in the bores I concluded there must be something wrong in the tolerance of manufacture. The followers were tight in the bores didn't lift with the usual push rod suction or with a telescopic magnetic probe. A pair of 90 deg circlip pliers clipped in the oil hole was needed to extract them from the block. I presume that although they were a `snug` fit into the clean block when engine building, once warmed up with the heat of the engine they had expanded just sufficient to stick in the bores holding them off the cam shaft at tick over causing the rattling noise. Spent a whole afternoon honing the sides with 800 grade` wet and dry` till they were very free in the bores. Head back on and all has been fine for the last 1500mls. best of luck, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just back from a hard day of work... on a very early TR4, but not LA ! Guys, thanks again for your replies, your help is very usefull, as it give me some way to follow. @ Neil, how are you mate ? where else do you think I should look ? @ Stef, you're probably right, but how can I be sure ? @ Stan, do you mean that I should check the valves clearance ? I've already tried .25 to .40mm when badfrog was still the master owner of Lady Anne, do not make any difference, except that higher clearance seems to allow more rpm (this engine easily exceed 5000 rpm). @ John, the followers in my engine are relatively easy to remove, with one finger plugged in them, so not enough room shouldn't be the problem here. If it wasn't the noise problem, this engine run remarquably well, as could be able to confirm Alec P. or Richard V Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Some of mine were were pitted inside on the 'lid' part of the can shape. While the donk was in bits i thought that new ones should go in. next owner can check whether they were better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hello guys, Update to my previous posts, where I was telling something wrong : every follower can move in its bore with the help of one finger, no problem here, but some are more free to move than others ! None of them is rocking, but some are harder (albeit relatively easy) to move than others. So, as suggested by John previously, could be the ones with less clearance who could cause a problem, once warmed up ? I wouldn't like to remove material from the bores for nothing, so I'll check tomorrow the hardest to move follower in another engine block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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