cotswold Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 My TR4A has about 3 inches of free play in the steering, it is like catching up with where the car is when I go to correct direction (bit like boating). My MGB by comparison had a very firm feel compared to the TR and I am not sure if this is usual. Is there anything I can do to make it feel more direct or is this a new part issue? If so what is the minimum I need to do? Thoughts please. Many thanks Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Charles, Three inches ? I would not drive it again until that is corrected. No way. There are several places that you or your garage should investigate. The two most common are: The rubber bushes that secure the rack to the chassis might not be clamped up to spec allowing the rack to slide side to side rather than turn the wheels. parts numbered 53,54,55 http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/catalogue_page.asp?cartype=tr4a&plateid=146 The universal joint at the end of the steering column where it joins the rack. There are two split, splined clamps that should be tight, and a rubber joint. parts 11-15 etc. Correct all wear there. How on earth did it pass an MoT??? I'd think about finding a more critical MoT tester ! The car will be transformed when the three inches' slop is reduced to a few mm. As good as the B. But don't ' do the minimum' when it comes to steering, failure can be catastrophic. And three inches must be getting close to that. Peter Edited August 21, 2015 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Peter's right. That's dangerous. Can you get an assistant to waggle the wheel while you examine the steering components to identify where the lost motion is occurring? With that amount of play it ought to be obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Peter's absolutely right! I've never been a keen advocate of 'rubber' components where steering is concerned. When I converted my 3A to rack and pinion steering there isn't a trace of anything 'rubber' in the whole set-up! Register members are quick to condemn the MG marque but, look and learn!! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi Charles, on a TR4A I'd regard free play of 3mm each way at the wheel rim as the absolute max . . . . . and the point at which to investigate deterioration. Sounds like an accumulation of wear factors . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Thanks all I don't think it was as bad as that a month ago so thanks again for your warnings I will not be taking it out again until it's fixed. Regards Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Hi Charles, as pointed out - it needs fixing. As suggested above the play could be anywhere from the steering wheel right down to where the rack joins the wheels. Look at everything starting with the steering wheel. Steering wheel (SW) is attached to the shaft by splines and a nut to hold it in place. Gently move the S/W and look/hold to the see if the top UJ on the shaft is moving with it. Is the sliding joint in the engine bay at top of shaft tight and not sliding/moving. Are the UJ's (top and Bottom) in good order. Hold the top UJ and try to turn it - can you see any microscopic movement at the splines (both end of UJ) More on this at the end Gently move the SW and whilst looking and or holding the bottom UJ is there any microscopic movement at the splines (usually the bottom spline) - as above!!! Is the rack anchored firmly Is there play between the rack and the wheel Regarding the rubber UJ's. There is a design problem with them that stops them being tightened fully. If you take one off and look through the slit between the two clamping faces there is a lump of metal that stops the clamp bolt doing its job. - you can either fit new all metal UJ's or machine away the lump - this is what I do. With the lump removed you can easily tighten the clamp and it will never move. When checking I would spend some time on this area/ The pic below shows a 'U' shaped cut where metal has been removed. However this will only remove the majority of the lump you then need to get into the slit to remove the very last bit. The pic shows metal removed from both clamping faces - you only need to remove metal from one face to make the clamp work. Roger Edited August 22, 2015 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hello again Roger and thank you for a very helpful checklist. I went through your list and discovered all was well apart from what I have since read is a problem called 'RACK FLOAT' (according to the Rimmer catalogue) and is due to the rubber mounts losing their rigidity. This was why at 30 mph I could move the steering wheel (large 15"spoked version) about 3" either way before getting any meaningful change of direction and a sensation of "spongyness". I tightened up the clamps and immediately noticed a firmer feel so have ordered a couple of pollybush 'blue' steering mounts for circa £16 and free delivery from a decent seller on EBAY. Little by little I am sorting this beast! Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Charles, I think there's a special tool for compressing the bushes. I've never used one as one of the first mods I made to the 6 was fitting solid rack mounts. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi Charles ~ Peter is quite right. When I converted my 3A to rack and pinion steering I fitted TR4 (or 4A) solid alloy rack mounts. Perfectly solid and precise steering ever since. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Thanks guys I did see this upgrade in the Rimmer catalogue and reading the blurb saw that the main benefit was that it was long lasting as opposed to the rubber used originally that starts to go spongy after just 2 years, it also claimed that it gave a more direct though less comfortable feel to the SW. The Pollybush I have ordered is guaranteed to last 36000 miles and gives a better more comfortable feel to the SW so I have opted for a long lasting yet comfortable solution....or so it says! Either way I trust this will sort my steering out, having lost a wheel last month (earlier topic refers) my wife would never travel in the TR again if she thought it was likely to career into on -coming traffic. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Charles, just a thought - was it a front wheel that came off and did you have the SW play before hand. Perhaps losing the wheel has caused more damage than spongy rubber!!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Good point Roger it was the front PS but I believe that I have checked the steering components thoroughly and even replaced the ball joints as a precaution. The movement was very obvious on the steering mountings when I looked at it and as I mentioned earlier upon tightening the clamps the steering firmed up straight away. On that point Peter mentioned a rubber compressing tool, is this mandatory or can new rubber mounts be fitted without? I was looking at the workshop manual and it shows the tool. I think I will share the PDF of the manual as everyone should have it. I will put in as a new topic. Regards Charles Edited August 23, 2015 by cotswold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Charles, Perhaps a bit too late as you ordered a set of polybushes, but this seems like a good deal: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-HERALD-SPITFIRE-GT6-VITESSE-TR6-SOLID-RACK-MOUNT-KIT-/360368952896?hash=item53e7a9d640 its the same for a tr4 and i think worth the bucks. better do it once in stead of changing afterwards. Used the same set on my gt6 and really like to direct steering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Charles, Perhaps a bit too late as you ordered a set of polybushes, but this seems like a good deal: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-HERALD-SPITFIRE-GT6-VITESSE-TR6-SOLID-RACK-MOUNT-KIT-/360368952896?hash=item53e7a9d640 its the same for a tr4 and i think worth the bucks. better do it once in stead of changing afterwards. Used the same set on my gt6 and really like to direct steering. Edwin, Yes, fitted similar to those to the 6 many years ago, an instant transformation in steering precision. No down sides in my experience, and highly cost effective. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Thanks Peter/Edwin, Yes did see these but reading the blurb on various websites thought I would try the stated 'more comfortable long lasting 'Pollybush' option, not a huge mistake in any event as I can always change it over in the future. However, my question remains, do I need the special tool or can I manage fitting the mounts without it? I suppose those with the Ali upgrades wont know! Best Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I didn't need the tool to fit my poly rack bushes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 no tools needed.. Replaced the ones on my gt6 first with poly, same thought as you have. i can always change later. Later was about 2 months.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Gee thanks Edwin! The ones I am buying are the Blue ones (not yellow or black) and guaranteed for 36,000 miles so unless you drove every day all day I guess you fitted the cheaper ones. Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Gee thanks Edwin! The ones I am buying are the Blue ones (not yellow or black) and guaranteed for 36,000 miles so unless you drove every day all day I guess you fitted the cheaper ones. Charles haha no not the quality was the issue.. after i felt the more sturdy polybush, i wanted to experience the solid mounts and no regret ever since. my gt6 has an original gt6 mk1 engine but fully enhanced by jigsaw racing (the engine intended for track use) delivering somewhere near 150 BHP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 You dont really need the special tool with the poly bushes, (A couple of mole grips each side will substitute for the tool anyway) Im not a fan of the solid rack mounts especially with the roads today. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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