Peter Cobbold Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Worn adjusters? Are both sides failing the same? - that argues against an oval drum. Are the shoes fitted right- one leading one trailing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Peter, ill check adjusters both sides but neither side is locking. What's the difference in a leading shoe ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hi Robin, hope you are well. Have a look at this link which explains it quite well. http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/drumbrakes.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Kevo's excellent link explains it. But both shoes look similar here - ie the linings are fitted the same way on the shoes: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p52/mrv8q/IMG_0842-1.jpg I was under the mistaken impression that the linings were rivetted diferently for leading and trailing shoes - must have been remebering a different car. Peter Edited July 11, 2014 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 You will find the retaining pins will not fit if they are the wrong way round. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Ah, so not that as the pins are in and fit......apart from not locking why does the hand brake lock them no probs and not the foot brake. I can turn the rear wheels with the pedal right down(fronts lock) but can't with handbrake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 If they are new shoes you need to file the outer edge of a bit.Then re adjust Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 If the handbrake locks the rear brakes then I would be looking at the master cylinder, especially the seals for the rear brakes.  Cheers  Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Smith Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Filing the leading edge of the shoe is good pratice as long there are not containing asbestos (NOS), but will not stop the brakes locking up. Problem would appear to be the hydraulics; as both not working, then MC would be first place to look as Tony already has said or you have same problem on both sides. Have the hydraulic componments been off the car for a very long time? Edited July 11, 2014 by Dave Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I did not say the leading edge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Master and servo new, pipework new , no leaks. As I said rear pistons move as you would expect when pedal depressed, shoes move about 1 inch from rest. Surely if the mc wasn't working the shoes wouldn't move ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Ah, so not that as the pins are in and fit......apart from not locking why does the hand brake lock them no probs and not the foot brake. I can turn the rear wheels with the pedal right down(fronts lock) but can't with handbrake. Air in the rear circuit ! - bleed the rears again. The air is compressing when you try to exert pressure on the drums, but not when the cylinder is unloaded and moving 1 inch. The pedal goes solid against the front circuit's hydraulics and so gives no idea of whether the rear is 'soft' with air or not. Peter Edited July 11, 2014 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ah ha....after lots more faffing about I am convinced its the NEW master cylinder. Its working but not retaining pressure. When I had yet another go at bleeding just in case I noted that with a one way valve on the rear brake that having depressed the brake pedal and holding it down , firstly fluid came out down the tube......and then it went back up, ie back into the system.....spoke to the supplier and apparently they have problems with the new master cylinders. They are made by a company who supplies all the typical suppliers ....Anyways they are having all their new ones re-sleev'd.....at last Ive got to the bottom of this conundrum. Thanks all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Time to fill in one of Roger's forms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Hi Robin, that was an epic problem. Glad you got to the bottom of it. Â Â Regarding the PQI form - there is no need really as the supplier has identified the problem (with your help) and taking steps to rectify. Â However if you want to send a form through we can speak to the supplier just to clarify things. Â Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I really hope this supplier has stopped selling the un-rectified ones in the meantime... Â Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Tony , indeed they have and they are still waiting for the re'sleeved new ones from another supplier. If anyone has bought a new brake Master cylinder recently and are having braking issues do check that the master is working properely. Mine appeared to work fine except when bleeding with the pedal held down and the valve slightly open with a one way tube you could see the fluid returning to the system after being pumped out.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks Robin...question answered.  Cheers  Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 We do seem to doing a lot of beta-testing on behalf of sellers. Some of these c**p cylinders may have been fitted during rebuilds,but not yet filled with fluid or tested. Watch this space for more posts on the same topic. Beginning to think we need a system of recalls on faulty goods, especially safety critical items. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Peter , et al, you're correct. Bought mine 6 mths ago but only recently got on the road. I thought my poor brakes was ......bedding in, air in system, unused but 10 yr old pads, then the unused rear cylinders leaked ....now eventually everything on song to discover rear wheels won't lock. A few weeks of blind alleys on that, worn drums, badly fitted does, worn adjusters...and now finally Master Cylinder doesn't hold pressure. Interestingly they ate all made by same supplier so doesn't matter which outlet you get them from. Some work some don't, problems vary as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marki Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I've had nothing but problems after changing my master cylinder about twelve months ago. I've kept the old one, might have it rebuilt by Past Parts or the like..It would be nice to get it sorted bled them a hundred times changed the callipers pads the lot. If it turns out to be a duff master I'm not going to be a happy bunny, especially after I had a condenser fail on me at the weekend, again bought from a so called reputable supplier. Looked at the box MADE IN CHINA........ Fingers crossed Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F69 Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Robin, this may help you out. Check ebay for brake master cylinder. Ebay number 151367653576. I know the seller and should be v.good. Â Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I rebuilt both the master cylinders on my 3a as the bores looked remarkably good, I have recently bought a new replacement ( both the masters are the same on my car) "just in case" from Moss , Robin could you tell us the brand of cylinder you had a problem with ? Your supplier appears to have given excellent response in this case  cheers  Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted August 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Firstly, Richard. Given the resleeved replacements aren't yet available and no timescale given, and the failure rate appears to be 20% ish I got my supplier to send another. Now fitted. Rear brakes now appear to lock as they should, however I'll need a bit more time to see if they continue to operate and no leaks etc. Interestingly Alan and Richard the box the masters came in says TRW. I have now noted the the failing cylinder has no markings and its apparently working replacement has Lucas stamped into it, perhaps there's a clue here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Smith Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Lucas, which includes Girling, is owned by TRW an American Automotive company. Edited August 9, 2014 by Dave Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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