TRnorm Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Have just fitted new door lock barrels. I trial fitted RH lock mechanism (door handle and rotary lock assembly) and operation is not as expected. I have trawled the forum but cannot quite find my situation - so advice anyone? Insert key into lock (slot lying horizontally). If I turn key 90 deg clk wise I can hear (and see) the lever on the Rotary Lock move to the un-lock position (via the action of the Link assembly). BUT - I cannot withdraw the key in that position (or even in the 45 deg position that the key defaults to). In fact, the only position that the key can be withdrawn in is when it is horizontal. And of course, turning the key back into the horizontal plane resets the Rotary lock into its locked state! So, no way to leave the door unlocked unless the key is left in the lock!! As my son said - its behaving more like an ignition switch. Could he have something here? Oh - and a supplementary question: Is it correct that clk.wise rotation unlocks? I do recall seeing a thread regarding the "handing" of handles but i cannot now find it. PS I should mention that it was 18yrs+ when I disassembled everything, so could easily have reassembled incorrectly. Thanks in anticipation Norman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) This happens if you put the left-hand barrel in the right-hand lock and turn it over so that the words look right. This may help. http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44410-door-handles-nice-winter-job/ Edited January 6, 2014 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Hi Norm, in fitting the new barrel you have left something undone. For the drivers door the slot is horizontal - quarter turn clockwise unlocks the lock. It then returns to horizontal under spring pressure (is your spring fitted) To lock, turn key quarter turn anti-clockwise - key returns to horizontal under spring pressure. Inside the lock there is a double circular spring that is wrapped around the barrel structure. It has a 90 degree bend on each end that fits into the barrel - this is the spring that returns it all to horizontal - if this is not fitted or engaged it will not returm. There should be a number of threads on door locks - do some more searches. Roger TRy this - http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/29039-door-lock-stopped-working-with-the-key/?hl=%2Bdoor+%2Blocks&do=findComment&comment=262768 Edited January 6, 2014 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRnorm Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thanks guys - lots to consider for tomorrows re-look at the situation. Thanks again. Norman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 You dont need to assemble anything to check the lock barrels. Just put into the button and play with the key. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 HI, Done that last week, no hassle. As Roger my guess is that you forgot to fit the spring back during assembly. To lock: RH=anticlockwise (LH = clockwise) 1/4 of a turn and release the key which should go back to its horizontal position IF the spring does its job properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Red arrows show where to hook the spring (under pressure) Yellow arrow shows something to watch out on assembly: Make sure that "P" - operating like a piston- is properly inserted in the casing "C" and is locking the arm "A" in the snicks. Use the bolt "B" to pull "P" and hold "P" at the bottom of the casing while tightening the nut of "B" Edited January 9, 2014 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Has anybody found a way of replacing/refurbishing part P in Stef's useful picture. I have had locking problems with worn "shoulders" on this part allowing it to rotate in part C. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi Mike, Part 'P' is the key item in the lock and I believe it is not availabe as a seperate item. If anybody can get it then 'The Lock Man' may be able to, although I've never seen any on his stall - NEC, Stoneleigh. It is possible to carefullly file the edges to bring back a square edge. I'm sure that it would be easy(ish) to make an ali mould of these - anybody into moulding. UK left hand door locks will have less wear on these as will US/Europe RH door locks. Alternatively as the UK RH door gets the most wear, its gubbins could be swapped with the lefthand door. (I'm sure this part isn't handed). Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Geko, you are welcome to use my images but a credit would be nice. Probably everyone here knows I shoot on a yellow background. All my plungers are OK. Can you post a photo of the worn one? Could perhaps rebuild with Lumiweld. Or make a brass copy and soft-solder in the two ribs. Edited January 9, 2014 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRnorm Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Success. Even though I couldn't really see the handedness of the barrels, when swapped, the locks as by magic functioned as Canley intended! Another job done, so thanks to all for sharing their knowledge. Norman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ah, as I thought. I did it the same thing myself just before Christmas. Even more confusing is the little lever that sticks out of the die-cast cover. These are handed but the difference is very subtle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 That's interesting I didn't think the barrels were handed!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Come on Roger, the words and the arrow go the other way. And the cut-out that handles the plunger also. Edited January 10, 2014 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Hi Al, indeed they do but I can't for the life of me remember being concerned about them being handed at the time. I must have another look in the spares box. Sod this getting old lark. Roger Edited January 10, 2014 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Alan, I just ahd a look at new pair of barrels and clearly they are handed (I knew that ). Hi Mike, regarding your sloping shoulders. The plunger 'P' could easily be fabricated ('easily' , being very subjective). The plunger is a simple tube with shoulders and sticky out ears. The tube is 0.881" long and 0.272" diameter. The shoulders and sticky out ears could be fabricated into the tube by slotting the tube to accept a o.125" thick plate. Soldering all this together. Shaping the shoulder and sticky out ears. Drill and tapping the hole. The sticky out ears should have a good square edge to them. I believe your problem is that the ears are rounded and the barrel is also worn slightly - the ears are the important bit. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Roger, Thanks for the advice on fabricating the plunger, it is beyond my abilities (insert comment about the wrong sort of engineer) and equipment, but sounds perfectly achievable. I may have a go at Alan's suggestion with the Lumiweld on a spare. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Lumiweld is easy on Aluminium but the melting-point of this plunger will be much lower. Its small and will overheat easily. So you only need a small torch. I'd screw this onto an Aluminium bar and put the torch on that rather directly on the plunger. Edited January 10, 2014 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 As Alan states be careful.... or like the gay magician it could disappear with a poof...... Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Mike, I had a go a making your plunger 'P' in Alan's display. The end result is good and funtional but it took 2 hours to make one - so not really practical. If there was no supply of these things then fabricating would be an option but it would be more sensible to knock up a mould and run off a 100 or so. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 If you can make the first of these in 2 hours then you're in business. By the time you've made 10 you'll have 'em down to 3 mins each. I'd be interested to know the steps involved. I'd guess these are brass with two bits soft-soldered on and that most of the time was fiddling with the solder. In brass they will never wear out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Al, brass round bar turned down to 0.271" 1/8" wide slot cut down 0.7" the length of the round bar. 1/2" x 1/8" flat brass soft soldered in place. The shoulders turned down to 0.375" diameter and the ears at 0.490" diameter 7/64" hole down the middle. The item being worked on was left attached to the parent bar and cot off after the llast operation - this allows it to be held. I could improve production with various jig and fixtures but at present I can't see a demand for them Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Roger, Nice job, and better than original. I'll try lumiweld when I have a spare or 2 to play with, but that will be in a few weeks, as we are going somewhere warm and sunny next week. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 How did you mill the slots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Al, the rod for the plunger was held horizontal on the mill. I drilled through with a 1/8" drill in three places to remove some metal but did not open the slot at the end of the rod. So as to keep the shape. I then removed as much metal as possible with a 3/32" end mill. The remaining piece of metal on the end of the rod was cut with a hacksaw. Then using a very thin file I opened the slot up to 1/8". During this process the 1" length for the plunger was kept on the parent rod so as to help hold it, and parted-off on the lathe at the end. Thinking about the whole process my next attempt will utilise a jig of some sort. A 3/4" dia round bar with a hole down the centre - 0.271" dia - to take the above round bar. This will have a slot in it equivalent to the one I need in the plunger The rod for the plunger will be a nice fit in 3/4 bar and locked in place. Using a 1/8" slitting saw the slot can be cut - this should save a lot of time and effort. The soldering and trimming went fairly easily and I can't see how to make it quicker. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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