Paul Harvey Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 A very early Italia in truly amazing concours condition is now available for sale at a much reduced price. Silver over black interior, this car was the subject of a no-expense spared professional restoration and retains the condition as displayed at the Ville D'Este concours before the car was brought to England and registered with the plate '59TR.' My detailed investigations conclude that the car is the only known surviving roadworthy 'show' Italia from 1959 with many unique features not found on the subsequent production models. £80,000 including the private plate. Serious collectors may contact me by PM for further details and a discussion of the car's history. Nb. I have no financial involvement in the sale but am helping the deceased owner's wife dispose of the car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 crazy priced, as usual... and over-restored... chrome wire wheels, fog lamps, and some features under the bonnet. Sorry but I prefer your car, Paul... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 A tad over restored in some modest aspects perhaps, but overall a singularly impressive car - I say that having examined it in some detail at Malvern, and that must be 3 or 4 years back now. Chrome wires were typical of the period, as were the yellow foglamps. As for the price ? You wouldn't restore an Italia to this standard for the asking price . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Stunning looking car... Cheers Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Sorry Alec, no Italia left the factory with chrome wires. too much chrome, too much bright parts, too much money … the car was restored in Switzerland … not everyone taste ! in short : too much ! The late former owner pay too much for this car but it was a very special story. then every Italia owner thought he has gold in the garage ! It's just a TR3 well dressed ! I'm restoring one, and i can assess that it cost no more than restoring a TR4 ! (some special parts apart) (which is largely enough for my little wallet !) of course it is a wonderful car but nobody knows it and so need it ! I still prefer paul's ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Yes I agree, it's a TR3 in a party frock. I would not, however, agree that the average Italia resto can be completed for the cost of a TR4 - rolling chassis, yes indeed. Body, trim and interior is another matter entirely - especially if done properly. Whether or not chrome wires were fitted as new is neither here nor there, 72 spoke wires were not fitted either and 48 spoke would have been the norm I suspect. Originality is not the be all and end all. For sure, a lifetime of classic cars has taught me not to be too definitive about what is and is not original, what the factory may or may not have fitted. There were exceptions to every rule, records of 50 or 60 years ago are incomplete, and in the case of the Italia I suspect an awful lot of desirable information no longer exists ? Paul's is a very nice car indeed, and very original . . . . the silver one is a very well restored car, exceptionally so in my opinion. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted December 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 The restoration is unarguably exceptional. Every single nut and bolt has been dealt with and the car is in sensational condition as befits its claims to concours standard. It has had considerably more than the asking price spent on it. I do not in any way wish to claim it is an original car, it has been restored with the benefit of technology and materials that were not available to the factory. It has the benefit (or otherwise depending on your view) of 'upgrades' that will make it drive and handle better than the factory could have achieved. It will not appeal to complete originality freaks, including me, but it is nevertheless an extremely fine motor car, and much closer to what the factory built than many a concours winner around the globe. As for the price, it is a rare hand-built, designer label Italian coupé which was built with cheap underwear. I suspect it will prove as good a financial investment as it is to drive. As I have said before, you pays your money....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 ........................... I suspect it will prove as good a financial investment as it is to drive. As I have said before, you pays your money....... And there's the rub! A fine restoration it may be costing more than the asking price, but would anyone 'keen' enough to pay £80k (even at a "at a much reduced price") for a TR or derivative actually drive it, and would it be driven this time of the year? I think we all know the answer to that. More likely it will turn into a show Queen and ornament and that would be a shame. Nope, seen Paul's and it's a far better and useable car in all respects. Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigbush Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 Is this the Italia that appears about six minutes into the film "Michelotti's Masterpiece: code name Stag"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted December 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 No idea Mr Trigbush - never heard of or seen the film. Where can I see it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 if anybody can restore an italia for the same price as a TR 4 cheque and car is waiting for the lucky restorer . just give me a call . graham ps i will even throw in all the rubber seals to give them a head start. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigbush Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 No idea Mr Trigbush - never heard of or seen the film. Where can I see it? I have the DVD. There are a couple of other Italias on the film. I will take some still shots and pm them to you when I get a moment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 See: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Code-Name-Triumph-Michelottis-Masterpiece/dp/B004AMJHEY Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 70K for the Dutch specimen, 80K for this one. Too much? Perhaps, perhaps. But still, you better get used to this sort of prices. When they are getting sold for that money, the price is correct. It's a buyers' market these days and buyers dictate the price. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 70K for the Dutch specimen, 80K for this one. Too much? Perhaps, perhaps. But still, you better get used to this sort of prices. When they are getting sold for that money, the price is correct. It's a buyers' market these days and buyers dictate the price. Menno correct. have you seen the tr2 prices lately ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 Edwin, could you share the TR2 sales prices you are referring to? I kind of suspect the same thing but dealer listings are one thing and sales are another. Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Italia 227 Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) 70K for the Dutch specimen, 80K for this one. Too much? Perhaps, perhaps. But still, you better get used to this sort of prices. When they are getting sold for that money, the price is correct. It's a buyers' market these days and buyers dictate the price. Menno Agree completely with these comments. I've shown my recently restored Italia (#227) at three Concours events in the US, and received on-the-spot offers to buy the car twice. The potential prices here lag what seem to be UK / European asking prices, but not by much. The best way to disabuse yourself of the notion that the market sees these cars as a tarted-up TR3, is to stand next to one for a few hours a Concours event. People consistently stop in their tracks, take photos from every angle, and ask endless questions: What is it? How many did they make? What’s it worth? Clearly, not every passerby would pay 3-4x the price of a great TR3, but I’ve not seen cringing at the idea of that value either. Edited December 24, 2013 by Italia 227 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted December 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 even at these prices an Italia is one of the cheapest Vignale coupes you can buy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Hello, don't you like these : http://www.subito.it/annunci-lazio/vendita/auto/?q=vignale vignale's coupés too ! Happy new-year ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Itsa Italian, itsa rubbish . . . . and evena worsa, itsa Fix It Again Tomorrow. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Italia 227 Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Hello, don't you like these : http://www.subito.it/annunci-lazio/vendita/auto/?q=vignale vignale's coupés too ! Happy new-year ! You might want to look up the defintion of coupe'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Don't be too serious ! all these cars are fun to own and to drive ! and made by Vignale ! as is the Italia, a charming little exotic car with a good and bulletproof engine ! best of both world, bur not priceless... I still wait to see an official auction for one of these at more than 40 000 £ ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Little FIATS are still little FIATs no matter the party frocks . . . . . and time doesn't change the fact that a **** car back then is still a **** car now, and there aren't many FIAT products that I'd categorise as anything else . . . . just my opinion of course. A Gamine is arguably a petrol tank awaiting a well deserved match. As for Vignale, something of a curate's egg historically, and hardly an unmixed blessing in itself. If it's about to become an upmarket Ford brand name, then there might at last be some consistency of quality about the name. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Edwin, could you share the TR2 sales prices you are referring to? I kind of suspect the same thing but dealer listings are one thing and sales are another. Dan You are right, but still.. Someone told me the tr2 is going up because of the possibility to drive it in mille miglia at "reasonable price " in comparison to the rare cars.. http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/41/tr2/ http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/search-classic-cars/triumph/tr2/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 There are more than a few sidescreen TRs being offered for sale in the UK and in continental Europe at prices £30-50K, some of them claiming a history connected with the factory, and some of them suggesting the possibility of Mille Miglia eligibility. It is not difficult to claim a factory connection for a particular car, it is not always so easy to prove that connection beyond reasonable doubt - and more difficult still to prove the historical authenticity of the components of that car. For example, my Super Snipe has had just 3 owners since it was sold from the factory after being at the 1958 Earls Court Motor Show, I have owned the car for more than 30 years, and spoken to the previous owners and factory personnel long ago, when I first acquired the car. This Humber has covered little more than 30K miles from new, outer sills and wheel arches repaired rather than replaced, otherwise the body/chassis is entirely original, as is the interior, and as are the mechanics. How many TRs do you know like that ? The likelihood of any TR gaining a Mille Miglia entry is, I suggest, not great - not unless the individual car actually competed in the MM in period. Dealers can ask £30-50K all day long, it does not necessarily mean that the cars are worth that much. TRs at this price tend to wait a long time for a buyer, and when they do sell then neither buyer nor seller wish to talk about the price . . . . . By the same token, it is no problem to ask £70K, £80K, £100K even for an Italia. The same goes for a Francorchamps. Rarity value, the Belgian TR2 more than the Italian TR3. Whether the market values the car at that level is another matter entirely. Caveat emptor . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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