Fireman049 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I've read somewhere that TR blocks had 'TR2' and 'TR3' painted on the side of the blocks to identify them. On which side was this painted? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) My block, TSF52E, had marshalling marks painted by hand in a reddish-orange paint behind and above where the starter would be mounted. You'll also note that it appears my car may have been marked twice, originally as "TR4" and then "TR3". Since the car is a TR3B, with build date of April 12, 1962, it's quite possible the block was originally intended for a TR4, because that new model had been in production for months. Note that as a TSF series TR3B, my car never would have had a TR4 engine from start -- that would have been for a TCF series specification (production of which probably hadn't quite started yet). Edited November 5, 2013 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) My block, TSF52E, had mashalling marks painted by hand in a reddish-orange paint behind and above where the starter would be mounted. I'll edit the post when I have my PC online to add images. As did mine Was only looking at two photos of this yesterday, but cant recall my search or the site. Cheers Guy Edit Found it phoos in here http://www.trtriumph.com/tr3b_markings.htm Edited November 1, 2013 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Guy and Don ~ Thank you so much for your replies. Much appreciated. Best regards ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Graham Robson's book "Triumph TR's ~ Collectors Guide" ~ page 26 shows another style of marking the engine blocks. Still on the right hand side but to the centre and lower with what appears to be stencilled lettering. The script states that all TR3 engines were so marked. No mention is made of the TR2. Tom. Edited November 2, 2013 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Graham Robson's book "Triumph TR's ~ Collectors Guide" ~ page 26 shows another style of marking the engine blocks. Still on the right hand side but to the centre and lower with what appears to be stencilled lettering. The script states that all TR3 engines were so marked. No mention is made of the TR2. Tom. I noticed my markings when i cleaned the oil and crud of the block prior to rebuild. It was hand painted, see if i can find a photo Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mack Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) ... here are my markings: no markings pic but an attachment below .... Edited November 2, 2013 by mack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Hi Mack ~ No sign of your markings? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. Pied Lourd Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Here is what mine looked like. Cheers M. Pied Lourd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Thank you M. Pied Lourd. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) For those wondering why, it was an easily seen marker for delivering an engine to its correct assembly line. Viv PS. How come only TR3 ?. Back then very similar looking engines were being built for the Vanguard Sportsman, except with 30 degree inclined SU carbies. TR engines used 20 degree carbies to the clear the lower bonnet. Edited November 2, 2013 by vivdownunder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hi Viv ~ I think I'm right when I say that the Vanguard engine had it's dipstick position in the middle of the block? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Found it Looks like Tushes Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Thanks Guy ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 A local has asked me to expand on the marking. It started sometime during TR2 production. Often it was behind the starter motor which seems odd, but the marking was actually applied to a painted bare block before assembly. It denoted a TR block needing thicker head studs, correct internals, cylinder head, manifolds, carbies etc. Finally it ensured the correct gearbox was fitted, then the starter motor was bolted on through the bellhousing, By then the marker had served its purpose and it didn't matter if it ended up behind the starter motor. Viv. PS Tom, the last Vanguard engine I recall seeing had the dipstick as per TR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) John Macartney (retired from S-T engineering) posting this comment about engine block marshalling marks on the team.net Triumphs list on March 3, 2012, and I hope John doesn't mind if I copy it here. The issue of mysterious ad-hoc codes painted on cylinder blocks has arisen on many occasions over the years since I've been on this list. Usually, they were of very short run duration - sometimes just days or a week or two and were mainly marshalling marks to ensure each assembly line got the right block in times of shortages when the unit came out of machining and after being painted. In this instance, I'd suggest that painting TR3 on this unbuilt block was to differentiate it from other wet liner four cylinders being built at the time. Standard had two engine assembly lines for the Big 4 Pot. One was used for TR, the other assembled power units for the Vanguard in 2088cc, the later Ensign in 2138cc, the Leyland 15 and Leyland 20 light trucks and vans. All of them had variations configurations of camshaft, compression ratio and carburation. In this instance, identifying it as a TR3 may have been nothing more than ensuring engine assembly had sufficient blocks available per model. To add to this general scenario, it's important not to forget the company also sold a large number of these base engine units with even further technical variations as static power units in industrial applications. You'll also find similar ad-hoc codes on the small block engines for Standard Ten vans and pick ups with the 1147cc engine for Spitfire and earlier versions of the SC engine in 948cc guise for Standard Ten, Herald single carb and Herald twin carb. Jonmac Edited November 6, 2013 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Saloon engines, Vanguard Sportsman or Ensign, had the dipstick in the centre of the block - at least UK production did, although that may have been different for Australian production ? TR engines had the dipstick forwards mounted. As for the 15/20 commercials and the industrial engines . . . . no idea ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Here's a link to a Vanguard block https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14101357/20131103_121852.jpg For completeness here's a link to a Fergi block https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14101357/20131103_121312.jpg Malcolm (sorry they're big files, I'll try to resize and repost later!) Edited November 6, 2013 by Malcolm T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dick Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 My 59 3a had 'Tr3' written in white paint on the starter motor side in the center of the block. It was a factory recon. Could this be a reason for marking so that its journey through the recon process was unmistakeable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 When we were cleaning up the block, we could see the faint outline of the red/orange painted TR3. We took several photos and made measurements. Later when the block was painted we applied the TR3 as original. You can see it in the photo below although partially obscured by the exhaust manifold. Cheers, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john martin Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Sorry to go sllghtly off thread but does anyone know the meaning of the letter E after the engine numbers? Thanks and regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ummm... "Engine", maybe.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Original production engine as opposed to factory reconditioned . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Also, John, you'll hear in various parts of the car-collecting world about "matching numbers" originality. In the TR world, that means only that the numbers match to the original production records, not that the numbers themselves are the same. I think I've heard of one car in the 80,000+ sidescreen TR production that may have actually had vehicle commission number TSXXXXX match up perfectly to engine TSXXXXXE. And that was only by some completely unplanned fluke. In most of the sidescreen series engine numbers were way ahead of commission numbers -- by many hundreds at least. My car is a nonconformist -- it has engine TSF52E on car TSF202L. But then, where the rules for those last few make-do TR3Bs are concerned, there really are no rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The location was the same on the TR4s. Here is a picture of my 1962 TR4 engine pre rebuild, with the similar orange paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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