alfietom Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hi. This is my first post although I have been following for quite a while now. I have been looking at classifieds for TR4 / 4a's for about 18 months and am now in a position to purchase one. After living through my 20's (25 years ago) on a diet of Spitfires and GT6's its now time to realise my dream and take the plunge. I have been looking on-line and places like Ebay with the thought of spending around £16 - £18,000. It seems that I can get more for my money if I purchased a US model converted to RHD. Now I have no intention of showing the vehicle and going in for Concorse standards but I would like something that has been subjected to a full restoration in the not to distant past. (am i asking too much for my money?) I have noticed a car that appears to tick all the boxes but it is a LHD conversion (to RHD) In this case what should I be looking out for and what are the pitfalls. For me this is certainly not a commercial venture, I would just like to buy a car to use for special days out and to cherish and look after it for many years to come. But if the worst came to the worst would my LHD conversion suffer financially? Some tips and pointers would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) If the conversion has been done properly then you shouldnt be able to tell the difference other than the "L" in the commission plate. (With the exception of a live axle 4a as they were never sold over here). Beware of badly done ones though (plates just stuck over the original master cylinder and column holes and bodged "extended" wiring looms) I have done several including my personal 4a and you cant spot the difference. In the valuation section of the Towergate policies they do make a distinction but to my mind a car from a "Dry" US state is always a better candidate for a restoration due to the myriad of problems with replacement panels usually required for a Home market car.As you arent bothered with concours etc then just buy the best you can afford and enjoy it.(Get someone who knows these cars to have a good look over it first) Stuart. Edited June 5, 2012 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlfredHitchcock Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 As the (biased) owner of an imported former LHD car I would say its far more important to get a good car than worry about RHD prices. If you reject a good car because of resale value you may pay MANY times over the possible difference with repair costs. Compared to modern cars these are very simple to work on and the convertion itself is relatively straightforward. Obviously it needs to be done properly. Having said that, with your budget I would think you'll have the pick of some very nice cars. There is a very nice red TR4 on ebay atm for circa £18k. I have absolutely no knowledge of the vehicle or connection with the seller. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TR4-1963-/221041216897?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3377154d81 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hi Just bear in mind that if you owned the car and were selling it, an informed buyer would be asking all the right questions, so a converted LHD car will not be for everyone. Having said that, something like 90% of TR4's and TR4a's were LHD (hence the 'premium' for genuine RHD home market cars as they are rarer) and so you are most likely to come across either a LHD car that has been declared as converted, or a RHD car that has been 'restored' using a LHD car or its constituent parts. Genuine and very good RHD cars are very very rare. You will undoubtedly get a better car for your money buying a dry state LHD that has been the subject of a full restoration and converted to RHD at the same time. The 'conversion' involves a little drilling and welding, plus the addition of the obvious RHD parts like a dashboard, pedals and steering rack so there is no real complication here. Provided that it has been done well the only way you should know is by looking at the minute detail on the bodyshell (there are a number of minor differences) and the Heritage certificate. Do pay particular attention to things like an overdrive gearbox which should be a CT numbered 22% a type unit (only a small proportion of the USA export cars had overdrive as an option, so converted cars tend to have bitza gearboxes from Triumph 2000 saloons or later J type unit), the engine and cooling as many from across the pond return wth cracked heads, and bent axles caused by parking / kerbing. If you arent fussy, just buy wisely on CONDITION and know exactly what youre paying for, that way you'll end up with a good car for the right money, and no nasty surprises. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Brabazon Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Hi, Also biased. Give me a rust free original bodyshell any day. The 'L' in the chassis number is a little price to pay compared to the gains. Steve Click on thumbnail Edited June 5, 2012 by Steve Brabazon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark1965TR4aBRG Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes I would and I did. As previously said, if you want a concours special then spend your hard earned on a RHD. However if like me you want a sound rust free car that will never be as it left the factory then I'd go for the best mechanical base you can or want to afford and work from that. My rationale was to build my 4a around how I wanted the finished car to be like as I had an idea of sorts. Of particular importance was a completely solid rolling chassis, engine, transmission and bodywork. Bodywork is not something I can claim to be an expert in, but mechanics I am reasonable with & electrics I can work out eventually with guidance and a digital volt meter. So I was offered an ex USA California car that was part restored and in LHD trim. I worked from this base and converted to RHD myself with specialist help aong the way from TRGB. My car would sit in the price bracket you mention and is more new parts than old now in the nearly two years I've owned it. I can honestly say that I know just about every nut, bolt, connector fixing on every part of the car now and bear in mind I started with absolutely no knowledge at all. Depending on what you buy you can can work in stages. For me I wanted to get the rolling chassis and bodywork (the main panels were finished to a high standard just not fitted) completed and the car MOT'd, registered in the UK for the first time and on the road for a few months in summer 2011 - which I am pleased to say I managed to do. I then set about another wave of work over 2011/12 winter and am still at it, although I doubt the car will ever be completely finished - I do now drive the car regularly and have done track days, club meets and am off to Le Mans this year too and it goes a treat. You are very welcome to come and take a look (don't bring your cheque book though as I'm not selling!) and I'll explain all the work I've done and take you for a spin. Drop me a PM if you'd like to find out more & I'm in Cambridgeshire. One thing I would suggest is that you choose your car well and I have worked with TRGB every step of the way and they really are a superb informative company that do everything possible to help and boy have I asked questions..... I have only ever received positive words about my car and not once has someone said - "she's a looker for a ex left hooker".. Hope this helps and good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trelfin4 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 As rightly put a dry state car with its original body tub wins hands down on a uk repaired shell however well its been done.Having done both I definitely know what I would buy. Good Luck and spend your money wisely and enjoy. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark1965TR4aBRG Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 As the (biased) owner of an imported former LHD car I would say its far more important to get a good car than worry about RHD prices. If you reject a good car because of resale value you may pay MANY times over the possible difference with repair costs. Compared to modern cars these are very simple to work on and the convertion itself is relatively straightforward. Obviously it needs to be done properly. Having said that, with your budget I would think you'll have the pick of some very nice cars. There is a very nice red TR4 on ebay atm for circa £18k. I have absolutely no knowledge of the vehicle or connection with the seller. http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3377154d81 Very pretty car, but I think this will be >£18k. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Lots of good advice already, but I would have thought that deciding whether to buy a TR4 or a TR4A was more relevant. Not only are the two models quite different to drive and live with, but availability and price are as well. If you haven't driven both variants, then have a look at previous discussions and comparisons on this Forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alfietom Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thanks for some great advice. I feel ashamed to say I have very little knowledge of what to buy and to this point I didnt want to get 'tucked up' by paying well over the odds for the wrong car. The car mentioned in the prvious post on Ebay was the vehicle I was actually referring to. But i stalled when the owner mentioned it was a LHD conversion. Alarm bells rang in my head not realising that so many cars in the UK were once left hookers. Its a real shame because the car sold to the first person who saw it. I am also ashamed to say that I have not actually looked at any vehicles yet so again dont really know what to look for. I will take my Father in law along who has done a couple restorations in the past, although not any Triumphs, but living in Cornwall means everything is always such a long way away although I am happy to travel anywhere in the UK for the right car. As for restoring,I am too impatient to carry out a full restoration myself and although I feel I could do the job, I would rush it and would not be happy with the finished article. TR4 or 4a? am I right in saying the main difference is the independent rear suspension, handbrake on the gear tunnel, chrome side trim with indicators, twin exhausts? over riders in a different position on the bumpers. It was always the 4a that I have craved but again the important thing to me is a nice car in good overall condition. There was a lovely fully restored red 4 on Ebay a couple of weeks back but again I dithered and it sold. So Its now time to get serious and find the 'right' car. I'm not sure if this is allowed on the forum but I would be very grateful if anybody knows of a genuine good vehicle in my price range could they drop an email to me at simon_peters@btconnect.com Thanks again, Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 As you are in Cornwall give me a ring for a chat as I may be able to help. Contact details via the link on my signature. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Simon Don't even think about contacting anyone else, other than Stuart, in Cornwall.The man is a living legend and a true Gent.What he doesn't know about TRs and what to look for isn't worth knowing. Personal recommendations from Forum users would fill a large book. Top man. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Stuart will give sound advice, but a few other major differences to bear in mind: TR4 hood and frame are like the sidescreen cars in that they are not permanently attached, whereas the TR4A hood and frame simply fold back and can be erected 'in-flight' when caught in a sudden downpour. TR4A chassis is weaker and more prone to rot, especially around the rear suspension attachment points. TR4As are generally more plentiful and cheaper. (IMHO there are good reasons for this, but ride and handling are subjective so you do need to drive both live-axle and IRS cars to decide what suits you). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alfietom Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thanks again for the help. Stuart, I'll call you tomorrow (Thursday) if thats convenient. We live near Bissoe about 4 miles from Truro so I could easily pop by if that would be OK but I honestly dont want to waste your time. Cheers Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 No problem, you are about twelve miles from me so come over anytime. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark1965TR4aBRG Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 but living in Cornwall means everything is always such a long way away Not anymore it's not - good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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