JohnTB Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 From engine fire up, what's the typical time for the oil pressure light to extinguish and the guage to read ? On my 1970 CP, it takes about 3 seconds in which I get rattle. I've just sorted my timing out and also got my PI well on song. This means that now, after the ususal wait for the injection system to pressure up, from cold, it usually starts first pull on choke The pressure when cold is around 65 PSI and when hot this drops very slightly to 55 - 60. At tickover when cold it stays at 65'ish and when hot it goes down to around 20'ish. The car has a spin on oil filter and an oil cooler. The last oil change was 1k miles ago and previous to that 3k ago. I've also cleaned the pressure relief valve and re-newed the spring (with a standard spring). Question "Should I worry?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yes, alot of them do this. Can be longer than 3 seconds too. Suggest winding it over on the starter before you pull out the choke. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 With a spin on fitted there should be no rattle and the light should go instantly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sarajitTR6 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Dont worry, be happy. Oil thins when it gets hot, hence 20ish. Also oil pressure proportionate to engine RPM. Cheers.....Sarajit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I would, do you have a stat fitted? is it plumbed in the right way round? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badshead Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I've not experienced this on any TR, but it did happen on other cars I ran in the late 1970s. I understood that the lack of a non-return valve in the oil filter was a factor, probably alongside some bottom end wear. I'm always surprised how long it takes to build pressure following an oil/filter change, but after that the oil light goes out instantly. Have you experienced it with more than one spin on filter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hello folks, No Oil stat fitted. With any bottom end wear, surely I should see a drop in oil pressure under normal operating conditions ? Filter is a Crossland - Oil is Penrite 20W-50. What would be the effect of an 'ify' Oil pump ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PJM Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 An 'iffy oil pump would give low readings through the range, I would suggest oil pressure is okay but may be worth changing the make of the oil filter in case the crossland has no non return valve. I am sure others will know whether it has or not. Its possible it could be draining from the oil cooler whilst standing? I dont know the feasability of this as I dont use an oil cooler. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sarajitTR6 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 John, you dont mention RPMs. Lets put it this way, assuming your engine is in good nick, the most important check for oil pump in my opinion is that at ard 2000RPM with a hot engine you should expect 40psi. Above 3000rpm it should be over 60psi. If you get that, nothing wrong with the pump. In my engine, on a hot engine at idle ard 800-900RPM I get just under 30psi. Im told that is fine. Cant remember which guru it was. I have always found the process of methodical elimination of possible faults enlightening. Sarajit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) My rebuilt engine is instant, with no rumble or rattle. My oil pressure is close to 100psi when cold. I have a spin on oil filter and 16 row competition oil cooler. Cheers. Edited March 21, 2012 by TRTOM2498PI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 My rebuilt engine is instant, with no rumble or rattle. My oil pressure is close to 100psi when cold. I have a spin on oil filter and 16 row competition oil cooler. Cheers. My 'old' engine has similar pressure when cold - probably between 90 and 100psi at 1000rpm at start-up - no oil cooler fitted. Cheers Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think PJM might be onto something. Without a thermostat fitted it and depending on how high in relation to the sump your cooler is fitted it might be draining back into the sump. What happens if you start her up let the oil pressure build, then shut down. Wait, say 15 seconds, then start up again. Does the pressure come up quicker? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Many thanks to all who have responded. Sorry if I've inadvertantly started a debate on Triumph six cylinder engine oil pressure. I can say that I too can get 100psi when cold by fitting the uprated oil pressure relief valve spring. I did this some time ago but was warned off running with such a high oil pressure. This is bourne out by the original Triumph handbook figures which quote 45 - 65 psi at 2000 rpm under normal operation conditions. I changed the spring back to standard, and as I'm within handbook range, I'm not really too worried. I stated the figures so folk could get an idea as to the state of the engine. I can add that the compression is good and I have good running torque. The oil cooler is fitted in front of the radiator, behind the front valance and is higher than the sump. There is no oil stat fitted so maybe this can be an issue I do know that the reason the spin-on adaptor was introduced was to eleminate the oil starvation at start up experience with the old paper 'bolt-on' type. So it may well be that the Crossland has a problem with no 'non-return' I will try the 'wait 15 seconds' test. This at least will confirm that oil is staying in the galleries when cold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 In that case you will have one of the following, A incorrect seal with the spin on adaptor ( should be spring loaded if poss) a poor fitting pressure relief valve ( it should show a complete seating ring,or as suggested iffy filter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Neil makes a good point. Some of the spin on adaptors, early ones I think, did not have a spring loaded centre pad to seat against the engine block. You won't know which you have unless you unbolt it and take a look. The centre part should be spring loaded. With the non spring loaded ones it's possible for them to not seat properly against the block, or in the worst case they can stress the block so much that the boss that the big bolt goes into will break off. Ask how I know that. Edited March 21, 2012 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jobster Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Neil makes a good point. Some of the spin on adaptors, early ones I think, did not have a spring loaded centre pad to seat against the engine block. You won't know which you have unless you unbolt it and take a look. The centre part should be spring loaded. With the non spring loaded ones it's possible for them to not seat properly against the block, or in the worst case they can stress the block so much that the boss that the big bolt goes into will break off. Ask how I know that. Ok, since you kindly invited us ( and I love other people's misery..... ): how do you know that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Experience Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The oil pressure relief valve seal is fine. Copper ring, re-annealed the last time I took it off. So the next activity will be to remove the oil filter and examine the spin-on adaptor. I'll probably replace the filter at the same time. Have to wait to mid next week now. Thanks folks - watch this space. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Experience Yes, it was the pool of oil on the garage floor and the filter resting against the chassis rail that gave it away. The large bolt was correctly torqued by the way. That cost me a new block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 John you don't specifically mention how long it had stood before you fired it up. When I fire mine up after it's been idle for more than a couple of weeks, I always disconnect the fuel pump and then crank on the starter until the oil gauge moves. I also do this after every oil change. After a long period it can take up to 10 seconds of cranking before the gauge moves. I'm afraid I don't pay any mind to the oil light. When the car is in fairly regular use (say at least once a week) I find that the gauge starts to read almost instantly - sometimes before she actually starts (typically starts after about 2 - 4 seconds of cranking). Hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Like JohnTB I have an early CP car and mine never 'rattles' started from cold! Yes, it has high oil pressure to start with, and I never drive off from cold until it comes down to the 60ish psi mark. From cold mine needs a lot of cranking, but then it only gets a run once a month. I don't believe in all these modern modifications...mine has all the original Standard Triumph filter and Lucas components...I don't see any reason to mess about with them for normal road use, unless you go Track Days or Motor Racing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello David, The car is used weekly'ish (sometimes more, sometimes less with around 10 miles a minimum). The problem has really been noticable now I cant start on choke first time. Previously it always took quite a few pulls and I didn't notice that the oil pressure took any excessive length of time to come up. It certainly didn't rattle! When the car is hot after a run, there is also a lag, but not quite as long. When I have changed the oil previously, I've always taken the plugs out and turned over a few times and made sure the guage showed pressure. I must admit with the comments so far, I'm starting to suspect the filter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hi John But you say that you have done 1000 miles since the last filer change. I would expect the problem to occur immediately if the filer was in some way duff. I suppose it is just possible that some manufacturing defect has caused a blockage which melts away when hot? FWIW I only use Moss long filters and have never had any trouble with these. I guess that, at only a couple of quid, swapping the filter isn't a great hardship. Do please post an update when you crack the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello David, I think the reason why this is now an issue is that I have just got my timing completey sorted (after dizzy re-build) and with the injection set up now in fine fettle, the car starts first time on choke. I'll keep updated Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnTB Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well now I have my sign onto the forum issue resolved ! Car is used minimum weekly Oil changed, Spin on Wix filter with certified ant-drain back valve fitted. Detailed inspection of spin on adaptor - no evidence of leaks. Pressure relief valve taken out and cleaned. There were slight traces of gunge (carbon) on the rim which polished off. Plugs out. turned over - pressure came up after about 20 seconds. Left over night and the lag was there when starting the following morning. Didn't hear a rattle though. Just read the oil part on the Registers 'Technicalities' CD and, although not too clear from the text, there seems to have been experiences similar to mine caused by dodgy far east made oil pumps in the mid '80's (before I got this car). Can anyone out there throw any light on this theory ? Many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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