Alec Pringle Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 XAS in the wet ? Somewhen in the mid-80s, Oulton Park 4 Hour Relay race, the TR Pirates team. Heavens opened, rivers across the track, cars off all over the place. Roger Mac's lightweight E-type was the fastest car on the track, no surprise there he was ever a regenmeister, followed by Chris Burbury's TR5 only a couple of seconds per lap adrift. The TR5 was lapping the Ferrari team every 5 laps, a full 5secs/lap ahead of the 3rd fastest car on the track, a joy to behold. I've never ever seen a TR and driver put up a better performance, and probably never will again. The TR5 was running new 165 XAS on standard steel rims . . . . 195/65s will hang on a bit longer, until they let go, and when they do you might as well be driving Geronimo's Cadillac for all the good it will do you. If you're running standardish suspension the original tyre/wheel fitment is relatively forgiving of mistakes, which a wider and lower tyre fitment most certainly is not. One strike . . . . and you're out. But on the other hand, so many TRs these days are driven at a rate of knots that wouldn't challenge the capabilities of a 2CV spec 135/80 Michelin X fitment, so the discussion becomes entirely academic . . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thescrapman Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just goes to show how good the XAS`s are then when 40 year old tyre technology beats new century type though I suspect the Pilots in a back to back all weather test with new XAS`s (If they still made 185`s) would probably outshine in the wet. Stuart. Are not the "new" XAS (and others) tyres of a 40-year old design manufactured from modern materials, basically the rubber compounds used to make todays tyres, moulded to the 1960's patterns. I am sure they would be using modern materials in the construction of the carcass, as time has improved them immeasurably. Do you need to declare to the insurers that the materials used in the contruction of your correct sized tyres are of a higher performance than the originals? Sorry, being a pedant. :-) Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Yes they do use the modern rubber compounds but the actual construction of the tyre and thus its capabilities are still the same as the originals as they are still constructed on the same moulds AFIK. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I tried this earlier without success so for the last time: what's the widest wheel suitable for the 165s ? I've got 6" Panasports and am considering going with the 165 XAS next time round Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) I tried this earlier without success so for the last time: what's the widest wheel suitable for the 165s ? I've got 6" Panasports and am considering going with the 165 XAS next time round oops double post Stuart. Edited July 8, 2011 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I tried this earlier without success so for the last time: what's the widest wheel suitable for the 165s ? I've got 6" Panasports and am considering going with the 165 XAS next time round Sorry Tom missed that one. I would have said that 6" is possibly too wide for 165. I think the largest rim for that size would be 5.5" Though may be worth mail to Longstone tyres as I respect their opinion. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Find some 185/70/15 as they have the same rolling radius as the originals........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Find some 185/70/15 as they have the same rolling radius as the originals........ Unfortunately Tom wants XAS`s and they no longer make a 185 version. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) I tried this earlier without success so for the last time: what's the widest wheel suitable for the 165s ? I've got 6" Panasports and am considering going with the 165 XAS next time round According to Wheel & Tyre Bibles http://www.carbibles..._bible_pg4.html you could fit 165 x 80s on 6" rims, but the tyre wall curvature would be inadequate and the ride would tend to be harsh. So Stuart has it.... Rim-width calculator about 80% the way down the page. 185 x 70s would be OK. If they existed.... Ivor Edited July 8, 2011 by 88V8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwican Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I tried this earlier without success so for the last time: what's the widest wheel suitable for the 165s ? I've got 6" Panasports and am considering going with the 165 XAS next time round From the Tire Rack web site http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=199 ....The measuring rim width is the industry standardized rim width upon which the tire must be mounted in order to confirm it meets its dimensional targets. Because the width of the rim will influence the width of the tire, a standard rim width for every tire size is assigned and must be used. This standardized measuring rim width allows all of the tires produced around the world to meet the same dimensional standards and therefore, be equivalent with regards to their physical size. The measuring rim width is sometimes referred to as the tire's "design rim width." The assigned measuring rim width changes with the tire size's section width and with the tire size's aspect ratio. As tire section width increases, the measuring rim width increases proportionately in 1/2" increments. Therefore, relatively narrow wheel widths are assigned for smaller tires while wider wheel widths are assigned for larger tires. Tire Size Measuring Rim Width P175/75R14 5.0" P195/75R15 5.5" P215/75R15 6.0" P235/75R15 6.5" They did not have anything listed for 165 tires that I could find but it appears 6" rims might be too wide for this size of tire. Their web site also has a range of rim widths for any given tire size. Hope this helps Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just go to the Michelin Passion site and from there to the Technical Information page . . . . http://www.michelin-passion.com/passion/front/templates/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=39&lang=EN Nothing like getting it from the manufacturer . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 XVS tread pattern looks very similar to XAS and would fit a 6" rim in 185 size, just a wee bit dear . (Or a tad on the expensive side as Shezbo would say. ) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carld Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Interesting I have just bought some minilites with 185 65 15 new firestone tyres fitted, my wires have p6000 fitted 195 65 15 also fairly new. the difference in side wall size is about an inch? Am I being thick, 65 is 65 isnt it? With the minilites, it looks like the tyres have fallen out with the wheel arches . Cheers Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigfella Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hi carld The tyre size means as follows : 185 - width in mm. 65 - the profile of the side wall - being in this case 65per cent of the section width. 15 - diameter in inches. So your difference in size is because 65 per cent of the 195 section width results in a deeper profile side wall than 65 per cent of the 185 mm. tyres. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carld Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks Dave As soon as I read it I realised I knew that, senior moment. Cheers Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigfella Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have a lot of those moments !!!! How does your motor run on the 185's / 195's Carl as im on 185 80 15's at the moment and considering what to go for to change as they're getting close to the bone ! Keep getting 165 15's recommended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carld Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) I am on the side of 195 65 15 camp, more rubber on the road, shouldnt have said that, as I will soon have 4 new 185 65 15 Firestones for sale! lol I know there are a lot of 165 15 fans, but I guess its down to personal opinion, do you have lots of TR mates near you with different tyre sizes to put on your car and test drive? Cheers Carl Edited July 8, 2011 by carld Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Burgess Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Finnally getting rid of the wires eh Carl. Did you get the grey Minilites with the polished edge cos thats wot i was thinking for my 6 when its built. wouldn't mind a butchers when you next about. Dave B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carld Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ay up stranger, keeping the wires and yes now wearing boots in anthracite with polished edge minilites, think the anthracite looks right with valencia, I will let you be the judge of that! Need to sort plans for silverstone and IWE! Cheers Drinky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AllanT Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I was doing well on my 20 year old Pirelli's and 30 year old spare untill I started reading your chat and slightly influenced by the mechanic at the last MOT when he mentioned the side walls were looking a little perished!! I feel gutted having to throw away good tyres with at least 3/4 of the tread remaining, having done about 6000 miles in those 20 years. The next MOT is due in August so you will have gathered that it has taken me some time to decide which tyres to go for and which size. A tough decision but I have settled for the 195-65-15 Dunlop Fast Response, ordered and paid for online through Kwik-Fit, the 5 tyres costing £349 with the usual valves, balancing and disposal. This is cheaper than the last 4 tyres purchased in June 1990 for £365, so they seem a bargain!! I expect these to last another 20 years!!! (Okay I know you want me to change them every 5 or 6 years). The initial feel of these tyres on the return journey is pretty good, slightly worried about the tyre squeal in the car park at slow speed but once moving they felt light and little road noise, so feeling happy now the decision has been taken. regards AllanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi Allan, you'd feel a damn sight more gutted if those old boots had delaminated and thrown you off the road at speed . . . . when they let go the warning is minimal, and unless you realise just what's happened within a second and react correctly, you're into a big accident. Modern tyres will not last 20 years, and the grippier they are the shorter the effective working life - 2 or 3 years on serious performance tyres, anything up to 10 on more mundane offerings. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Can I just add to Alec's point that a set of 165/15 Michelins delaminated on my car after less than 10 years use on the car (which made me suspect that they had been on the shelf since before the US left Saigion!). The car spun at a mere 25MPH at the Supermarket roundabout on the Oxford ring road. Fortunately the chap behind had given me plenty of room. The car had felt odd for a few miles and I was going into the Supermarket to check pressures. Otherwise I would probably have been going faster. I now have a diary note to chuck the replacement Dunlop 195/65s in 2014, after 5 years' use irrespective of the tread depth. In Practical Classics a couple of months ago one of the Journos spun his Fiat Bertone convertible on black ice at 45 MPH. He and his other half were luck to survive. I know you can't legislate for black ice which can be an act of God. But for the expenditure of relatively small sums regularly you can increase the odds in your favour.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thescrapman Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I now have a diary note to chuck the replacement Dunlop 195/65s in 2014, after 5 years' use irrespective of the tread depth. Don't chuck them, offer them to the tightwads that do Autotests etc. At a set of tyres per event it helps to have a supply of good part worns.. :-) Cheers Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Walkerwek1958 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I`d go for 185/70-15s. The diameter is almost identical to the original 165-15 tyres so the gearing doesn`t alter. They look 'right' on the car, not too wide. As for performance, I was satisfied with the ride/handling on my car (now sold) which was slightly lowered with slightly stiffer springs. I know the 185/70s are harder to find and more expensive, but I reckon they are the best choice. paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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