88V8 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 The no load, free wheeling, plug out, makes the most sense with the pushrods removed. Least amount of stress on the motor. The noise, if there is any compression on #5 will be horrible. It's a 14mm hole. There should be some way to drill out a plug or drive out the center electrode and attach some type of baffle. At the same time filtering the air entering the combustion chamber. I fly out on Saturday, 21 May in the morning. Any suggestions? No, but take a magnetic doohicus to remove the lifters. You're a brave man Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I've been wondering about the lifters. If I don't remove them, what happens? If there's too much crud in the holes to get them out, just leave them? Without any weight on them, won't they just hover above the cam lobes? As for the noise, a compression tester with hose, gauge removed, tie wrapped facing down with an air filter type foam attached to the opening should work wonderfully. Comments? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I've been wondering about the lifters. If I don't remove them, what happens? If there's too much crud in the holes to get them out, just leave them? Without any weight on them, won't they just hover above the cam lobes? As for the noise, a compression tester with hose, gauge removed, tie wrapped facing down with an air filter type foam attached to the opening should work wonderfully. Comments? Not sure about the lifters. Hose will whip around I reckon unless anchored - lot of air surging. Maybe push comp.tester hose into garden hose, clamp with clips. Take hose forward away from cockpit. If hose volume is more than cylinder volume - 400-ish ml - then little contaminated air should get in. But foam filter for belt and braces job. Good luck, let us know how you get on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Don't see the advantage of removing the pushrods and you won't be able to remove the lifters with the head on anyway. Off with no. 5 plug lead and away you go. Surely this will closest to normal running conditions? Might be tempted to tighten no.5 exhaust tappet right up to give max valve opening - valve won't burn if the cylinder isn't firing and the lobe and follower are long dead already. Probably a bit late to be worrying about cam debris in the oil, this lobe has taken a while to go most likely. Might have done the oil pump some damage but anything big enough to cause problems should be collected by the filter after that. Most of the debris is probably very fine in any case. Take it steady and don't rag it up the hills and I reckon you'll be fine on that score. Plenty of entirely different things to go wrong though. Presumably you will have some kind of recovery cover? Breaking down a couple of hundred miles out could save alot of fuel money maybe...... As an aside, no 1 and no 6 exhaust lobes are both on their way out on my Vitesse 2L (short stroke version of the TR6 engine). Loss of lift was measurable 3 years ago and when I had the head off 2.5 years ago both followers were badly pitted. For various reasons it all went back as it was and I have another engine on hand should the worst happen. Since then, it's done 1 Club Triumph RBRR, (2k miles), 2 x Club Triumph HCR (1k miles each), 1 family trip to Switzerland (2k miles) and 1 x Club Triumph 10 Countries (3k miles), plus plenty of general running about. It still goes pretty well even though the engine has plenty of other general wear being as Triumph built it 43 years and 160k miles ago. I check the tappets pretty often and this tells me that these lobes/followers are continuing their decline - I've not measured lift lately but it still runs on 6...... They are pretty tough these engines. Look forward to hearing the story of the road trip Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpurchon Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I've been wondering about the lifters. If I don't remove them, what happens? If there's too much crud in the holes to get them out, just leave them? Without any weight on them, won't they just hover above the cam lobes? As for the noise, a compression tester with hose, gauge removed, tie wrapped facing down with an air filter type foam attached to the opening should work wonderfully. Comments? you cant take the lifters out from above. try a bit of wire bent into a u shape. push into the follower.might be able to keep them up that way. or just ignore them they will just hover. good idea about the compession tester hose. get 2 large thick polythene bags one inside the other and put over loose end of hose, fix with elastic bands. will keep the air clean going in and out of the cylinder and might keep the noise down too. richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Don't see the advantage of removing the pushrods and you won't be able to remove the lifters with the head on anyway. Off with no. 5 plug lead and away you go. Surely this will closest to normal running conditions? Might be tempted to tighten no.5 exhaust tappet right up to give max valve opening - valve won't burn if the cylinder isn't firing and the lobe and follower are long dead already. Probably a bit late to be worrying about cam debris in the oil, this lobe has taken a while to go most likely. Might have done the oil pump some damage but anything big enough to cause problems should be collected by the filter after that. Most of the debris is probably very fine in any case. Take it steady and don't rag it up the hills and I reckon you'll be fine on that score. Plenty of entirely different things to go wrong though. Presumably you will have some kind of recovery cover? Breaking down a couple of hundred miles out could save alot of fuel money maybe...... As an aside, no 1 and no 6 exhaust lobes are both on their way out on my Vitesse 2L (short stroke version of the TR6 engine). Loss of lift was measurable 3 years ago and when I had the head off 2.5 years ago both followers were badly pitted. For various reasons it all went back as it was and I have another engine on hand should the worst happen. Since then, it's done 1 Club Triumph RBRR, (2k miles), 2 x Club Triumph HCR (1k miles each), 1 family trip to Switzerland (2k miles) and 1 x Club Triumph 10 Countries (3k miles), plus plenty of general running about. It still goes pretty well even though the engine has plenty of other general wear being as Triumph built it 43 years and 160k miles ago. I check the tappets pretty often and this tells me that these lobes/followers are continuing their decline - I've not measured lift lately but it still runs on 6...... They are pretty tough these engines. Look forward to hearing the story of the road trip Nick Nick I think unburned fuel wetting the bores and rings washing away the oil film would be bad over that distance. Interesting about your cam lobe wear on orginal cam+tappets. I must measure mine, they've been in for around 100k miles, original spec too. Maybe I'm in for pleasant surprise: worn lobes would mean more power when replaced! I guess OE CR-series camshafts/tappets NLA...pity as they knew how to make them then. Yes really tough engines. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) "get 2 large thick polythene bags one inside the other and put over loose end of hose, fix with elastic bands" Brilliant. Love it. The possibilities are endless. I have hysterical visions of plastic bags swelling in the heat, filling with combustible vapour, growing larger with altitude, until finally the heat of the exhaust manifold works the trick, and the bulging bonnet flies off the top of a mountain . . . One hell of a Big Bang way to go . . . . Sorry bnw, nothing personal, just couldn't resist it !! Cheers, Alec Edited May 14, 2011 by Alec Pringle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Another good reason to pull the pushrods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Tappets=lifters. 88V8 had good idea: A couple of 'Magnetic pick up tools' with magnet o.d. that fits inside lifter, eg: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5lb-Magnetic-Pick-up-Tool-Telescopic-Magnet-Extendable-/350461995722?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item519929aaca Bend/cut shaft to length, run through rocker eye, wire up tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nick I think unburned fuel wetting the bores and rings washing away the oil film would be bad over that distance. Interesting about your cam lobe wear on orginal cam+tappets. I must measure mine, they've been in for around 100k miles, original spec too. Maybe I'm in for pleasant surprise: worn lobes would mean more power when replaced! I guess OE CR-series camshafts/tappets NLA...pity as they knew how to make them then. Yes really tough engines. Peter Don't think the unburned fuel will be a major problem once the engine is warm. Will just pass through as vapour. Certainly less hazardous than pumping it out of the plug hole. I'd think the engine probably needs a full rebuild already in any case. Check the two end lobes first (1 & 6 exh) as these usually seem to be the ones that die first, presumably as they get less lubrication. Cheers Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Don't think the unburned fuel will be a major problem once the engine is warm. Will just pass through as vapour. Certainly less hazardous than pumping it out of the plug hole. I'd think the engine probably needs a full rebuild already in any case. Check the two end lobes first (1 & 6 exh) as these usually seem to be the ones that die first, presumably as they get less lubrication. Cheers Nick Nick I was working on basis that the inlet valve was no longer opening- rocker loose, pushrod out. So no fuel to be pumped out of plug hole . Note he's in USA: carb. engine. PI another matter... Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 PI is easy - just put the blocked injector on that cylinder (Just rehomed my PI (two blocked injectors when last run) in a cardboard box - going electric). I don't really like the idea of the piston working against closed valves all the time - feel it will put more unbalanced load on the bottom end, not less. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 The starboard engines out...the fuselage is shot full o holes...but the fightin spirit will get ya home! Happy landings skipper! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hoh, yus! ""We're going through!" The Commander's voice was like thin ice breaking. He wore his full-dress uniform, with the heavily braided white cap pulled down rakishly over one cold gray eye. "We can't make it, sir. It's spoiling for a hurricane, if you ask me." "I'm not asking you, Lieutenant Berg," said the Commander. "Throw on the power lights! Rev her up to 8,500! We're going through!" The pounding of the cylinders increased: ta-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa. The Commander stared at the ice forming on the pilot window. He walked over and twisted a row of complicated dials. "Switch on No. 8 auxiliary!" he shouted. "Switch on No. 8 auxiliary!" repeated Lieutenant Berg. "Full strength in No. 3 turret!" shouted the Commander. "Full strength in No. 3 turret!" The crew, bending to their various tasks in the huge, hurtling eight-engined Navy hydroplane, looked at each other and grinned. "The old man will get us through" they said to one another. "The Old Man ain't afraid of Hell!" . . . " See: http://www.all-story.com/issues.cgi?action=show_story&story_id=100 We're all Walter Mitty when we're honest! JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 It's knackerd anyway so drive it till it dies and call a cab Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I made up the "silencer hose" today. The plug fitting from a compression tester, a brass fitting with a hose barb to replace the tester hose, thus eliminating all the Schroeder valves in the tester, about two feet of HD 5/16" hose clamped to the hose barb. I removed the plug from a Spitfire and plugged this in. The noise when running was about the same as a gas powered lawn mower. Not too bad at all as long as there are no restrictions to the outlet. Keeping in mind I did not remove the push rods in the Spit so it will probably be even less noisy. In theory, there should be very little air flow at the end of a two foot hose. Same charge in and out. I'm thinking of a fuel filter at the end of the hose. The PO said I can do anything I want to the car before I leave as long as I pay him first! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Baines Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Any suggestions? Stop being stubborn and hire a trailer? Edited May 17, 2011 by Richard Baines Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 And oiling- how: Spray can actuated by cable from cockpit? Oil gun in cockpit, long plastic tube to plug? Take oil mist from rocker cover vent to your hose? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 And oiling- how: Spray can actuated by cable from cockpit? Oil gun in cockpit, long plastic tube to plug? Take oil mist from rocker cover vent to your hose? 55 gallon barrel strapped to the bonnet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 "Leaving on a jet plane...don't know when I'll be back again...." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 "Leaving on a jet plane...don't know when I'll be back again...." "Get your motor running, head out on the highway, Looking for adventure in whatever comes your way" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 No "Easy Rider" ending here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick S Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Hi Just a thought couldnt you adjust the tapet to make up for some of the lobe wear to improve running? May be worth a tinker. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) A neighbour and long-time ex-TR owner has given me some old copies of TRaction. Issue No.129, March/April 1996 includes an article by Paul Smith (still out there, Paul?), "TR owners always Triumph". Paul was (is?) a UK teacher of English on an exchange to North Dakota, who bought a 250 that was in New Orleans. His story dealt with getting the 250 back to Dakota, towing it backwards on a dolly behind a relatively modern car. He tells of the failure of his lights and tyres, losing his way on a short cut along logging roads, through ice storms that closed even the normal roads, and the near collapse of the dolly chassis which cracked, probably accounting for the near terminal trailer-snaking that prevented him from driving at more than 45 mph. For 2500 miles and 77 hours of driving! So take heart! You can do it! JOhn Edited May 21, 2011 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bnw Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I'm back! Picked up the car at 1:00 PM Saturday. Pulled the rocker cover and removed the push rods from #5. Removed the adjuster nuts and screws from the rocker arms just in case. Removed # 5 spark plug, left the wire on the plug and snaked it between the distributor and the head in order to ground the plug and keep the spark from seeking a new path in the distributor cap. Installed my filtered breather hose in # 5 and routed it to the front of the engine bay. It took all of about 15 minutes. I lit her up, checked everything, dropped the bonnet and headed for home. The rubber hose got quite hot and smelled for a while but that eventually stopped. I drove very cautiously for about 50 miles closely watching engine temp and oil pressure. Temp just a slight notch below half, and OP at 45-50 hot, never less than 10 at hot idle. After about an hour at 3K or 60 MPH, thinking about # 5 being a no load, free wheeling assembly being "carried" by the five working pistons, I decided to let her "run with the big boys" which she really wanted to do. I drove another 450 miles struggling to keep her under 4K or 80 MPH. Another 500 miles Sunday and 350 more today, Running with the flow at 80 MPH all the way. The loss of power was marginal at highway speeds. It was only noticeable at lower speeds and at idle. BTW, I maintained 24 miles per gallon overall. A great trip with a fantastic car. It's easy for me to remember why I love Triumphs and keep on coming back these last 45 years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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