Re-using a cyl-head gasket

[jbenajes]

Hello.

 

Progressing with the rebuild of the engine, I have just installed and torquened the cyl head with a new Payen copper gasket (it seems of good quality).Now, I realize that I would need to remove the head for correcting a small mistake in the installation of the bolts. The engine has not been started yet.

 

Can I re-use the same gasket?

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Jesús

[Guest ntc]

Hello.

 

Progressing with the rebuild of the engine, I have just installed and torquened the cyl head with a new Payen copper gasket (it seems of good quality).Now, I realize that I would need to remove the head for correcting a small mistake in the installation of the bolts. The engine has not been started yet.

 

Can I re-use the same gasket?

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Jesús

 

 

In a word and imho NO

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Hmmm Only if you want problems down the road, then YES! Just get a new one at Moss for a cheap price.

 

Cheers,

James

[david ferry]

If it's solid copper, it can be reused, providing you anneal it first.

 

David

[Guest ntc]

If it's solid copper, it can be reused, providing you anneal it first.

 

David

 

 

But it would not last long over time David unless you know what you are doing

Edited August 7, 2010 by ntc

[TomMull]

But it would not last long over time David unless you know what you are doing

 

 

If my memory serves, the Payen gasket is a composite with a layer of fiber sandwiched between two layers of copper, and designed to be compressed only once. In my youth I re-used many of these on various cars (with some but not total success) but that was before the TR3 became my prized possession. Get a new one. Tom

[Alec Pringle]

I've only ever seen composite gaskets from Payen, never solid - a visual inspection will tell you instantly which it is, solid copper doesn't have folded edges !

 

If it's composite then it's a one-time use only, not reuseable . . . .

 

If it's an expensive solid copper gasket it can be reannealed but only a couple of times, not indefinitely, and even then it's the kind of stunt reserved for emergency paddock use. The difficult bit is heating it uniformly to a dull red, and no hotter, which requires a fairly large gas torch moving quickly (or an industrial oven, of course) - it's no good using a small torch and heating it in sections, that just introduces weak points. Once heated, the gasket needs to be placed on a flat clean surface to cool evenly. It will require Wellseal or somesuch each side on fitment.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Dave Larnder]

Hola Jesus

 

It isn't worth even trying to reuse it, a new one isn't expensive and can be considered as insurance value, for if the reused one does go it's one hell of a job to get the head off to fit a new one anyway, and get the water out of the sump.

Be extra careful when you lift the head that you don't move the figure of eight gaskets under the liners or you will have a sump full of water.

 

Hasta Luego

 

Dave

[Dave Larnder]

Hola Jesus

 

It isn't worth even trying to reuse it, a new one isn't expensive and can be considered as insurance value, for if the reused one does go it's one hell of a job to get the head off to fit a new one anyway, and get the water out of the sump.

Be extra careful when you lift the head that you don't move the figure of eight gaskets under the liners or you will have a sump full of water.

 

Hasta Luego

 

Dave

[roy53]

if solid coper use well seal and re fit .

Roy

[jbenajes]

Thank you all for your comments, recommendations and even offerings of new gasket.

 

Really, the gasket is not a solid copper one, but a composite gasket. I should have been more precise on this detail.

 

My reason for removing the cyl-head is that after bolting down the head, the bolts do not protrude the same length over the nuts, even when I tried to carefully locate every bolt in its corresponding hole. I did not realise this earlier, before dropping the head, and now I am not happy with the optical result. However, I believe that this conditions will not alter the proper head installation.

 

So, in view of the risk of disturbing the figure-of-eight gaskets, I will leave the head like this, by the moment.

 

Thanks again.

 

Jesús

 

 

[Dave Larnder]

Jesus

 

So long as they are full thread plus one, but preferably two, and have been torqued down properly there should not be any problem.

Dave

[Dave Larnder]

Jesus

 

So long as they are full thread plus one, but preferably two, and have been torqued down properly there should not be any problem.

Dave

[Dave Larnder]

Jesus

Just a thought. Have you fitted lifting eye brackets to the engine via the head studs? that would make them shorter.

Dave

[BrianC]

The slight variation may be due to incorrect combination of the various length studs (long ones are 9" or 9_1/2", short ones are 5", 5_3/8" or 5_9/16") depending on which cyclinder head is fitted and whether you have the lifting hooks. As long as you are confident the studs' lower threads are fully screwed down into the block I wouldn't worry, but if there is a big discrepency you could have a problem after a few hundred miles or so - don't ask me how I know! Agree about not re-using a composite gasket though, although I have had to do it on occasion but replaced with a new one as soon as possible.

[jbenajes]

Dave, even though the car as a whole is very original, the engine was upgraded to 86 mm liners, TR4 cylinder head and Strombergs (now I went back to SUs). So, I am not sure if the rear lifting bracket was ever fitted. The corresponding front bracket was indeed.

 

Brian, as said, I tried to place every stud in its hole, bolting down until bottoming. Now, I would check more closely the depth of the holes and the length of the studs, to obtain an even protrusion over the cyl-head, as it was before dismantling.

 

Well, I will be more careful the next time .

 

Thanks again for all your inputs.

 

Jesus

 

 

 

[Dave Larnder]

Dave, even though the car as a whole is very original, the engine was upgraded to 86 mm liners, TR4 cylinder head and Strombergs (now I went back to SUs). So, I am not sure if the rear lifting bracket was ever fitted. The corresponding front bracket was indeed.

 

Brian, as said, I tried to place every stud in its hole, bolting down until bottoming. Now, I would check more closely the depth of the holes and the length of the studs, to obtain an even protrusion over the cyl-head, as it was before dismantling.

 

Well, I will be more careful the next time .

 

Thanks again for all your inputs.

 

Jesus

 

 

Jesus

I also have 86mm liners ,pistons etc, a TR4 inlet manifold and HS6 S.U.s with K&N filters,, but I never had, nor have now, the lifting eyes fitted. When I installed the engine and gearbox, even the tub was not mounted so I don't know how to get the assembly out if ever needed, perish the thought, it was bad enough getting the gearbox and o/d out with the engine still in place.

 

Dave