TR2 (TS4887) for sale...

[Benf]

Hello All,

I've just joined for the purpose of educating myself as part of my search for a vintage Triumph motorcar.

Background: All my life I have been a big fan of 1970's BMW's. However, a few years ago I decided to satisfy a 40 year old itch to own a vintage British sports car (my Dad had an MGA when he was young). I've subsequently purchased both a Jag (E-type) and an old Sunbeam Alpine (the original 1950's version).

 

Question: Is anyone familiar with the TR2 (TS4887)? It's currently for sale, but as with all old cars, the pictures always look better than the actual vehicle. If anyone knows anything about this vehicle, I'd appreciate your opinion on it's condition and originality. If it turns out to be a 99pt car, I'd fly to the UK to purchase it.

 

(http://www.brightwells.com/3rdparty/orphanspress/classiccars/viewdetails.php?id=1727)

 

Thanks all.

 

BF

[Benf]

And ... if anyone can recommend an expert TR inspection service I would be most grateful.

If I do end up purchasing this car, I'll buy a round when I'm in the UK.

(expert = intimately familar with the TR2 and capable of judging to show quality)

 

BenF

[vivdownunder]

Hi Ben,

 

The car might indeed be a cracker, but it's not painted an original TR2 colour.

 

Fawn trim wasn't piped in a contrasting darker colour either, and it's not the original steering wheel.

 

So the starting point would be to accept that those items are what the owner wanted when he had it rebuilt.

 

His money and absolutely his choice.

 

Just so you are comfortable with this before pressing on with an inspection.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[SuzanneH]

Ben

 

As Revingtons is mentioned in the Blurb contact them, I am sure they will give their expert opinion as they will be familiar with the car.

 

Sue

[TR 2100]

Question: Is anyone familiar with the TR2 (TS4887)? It's currently for sale, but as with all old cars,

the pictures always look better than the actual vehicle. If anyone knows anything about this vehicle,

I'd appreciate your opinion on it's condition and originality. If it turns out to be a 99pt car,

I'd fly to the UK to purchase it.

 

 

Hi BenF,

 

I hope we can soon welcome you to the wonderful world of TR motoring.

Question is - is this the right car for you.

 

If this car met my budget and desires, these are the questions I would

be asking :

 

£35,000 adds up to a nearly full professional restoration. Question -

who did it?

 

If there is a history file of the restoration, ask for more details -

essential to judge the extent of work done.

 

Colour - always a matter of personal preference, but TRs always seem

to look so much better (at least to me) in an original colour. With

Winchester Blue and Salvador Blue both being close to the chosen

colour, it's a shame the owner didn't go for one of those.

 

To me, it just looks like there is something not quite there. There

are many good accurate original features, yet a few points I would

pick up on that could imply a bit of sloppiness. As an example, the

fuel supply line is not quite as it should be.

Panel fit is very good, though.

It's hard to tell the true condition when it still looks "glossy" from

the restoration.

 

I am always a bit suspicious when an advert details the history of

the marque rather than the histiory of the car.

"the car is still "said" to still drive beautifully" ? !

 

No overdrive, I suspect. Check.

 

Revington (top restorer, top guy) has only done the maintenance, not

the restoration. Ask him a few questions by all means, but it wouldn't

be fair to put him on the spot too much and ask him what he thinks of

the car.

 

Overall, very nice car, maybe just a little overpriced, but then probably

no more than most garages would ask.

 

Check out the Classic Marques website for an idea of what you can get

for your money.

http://www.classic-marques.co.uk/

No TR2s at the moment, but worth watching.

 

AlanR

Edited March 28, 2010 by TR 2100

[Menno van Rij]

'Fly to the UK'. I'm curious from which part of the Planet you live (not your address, off course ) Just the region. I'm asking because you can find beautiful cars all over the world. Nothing bad about British restorers, but sometimes you're better off locally! Mind you, we all use the same parts and go the same suppliers. It's the way things are put together that matter.

 

If you're after a concours-like car ('and capable of judging to show quality'), walk away from this one. A restorer intending to restore a car to concours condition will never choose a colour so far off the chart. But, having said that, I don't know anything about the mechanical condition of this car. It can be put together very well, making it a great car for long distance touring etc.

Personally, I think that this is what the owner was after: e.g. I see a 'modern' style thermostat housing. But, although stated that the car is fitted with an OD, I don't see the pear-shaped switch on the dash.

 

Before catching a plane to the UK, I would ask the seller for more pics of the resto. He can put them online (Photobucket) and send you the URL, so that you're able to watch 100s of pics. Mind you, when you spend GBP 35K on restoring a car, I think you will have taken pics of every detail too! (In my case: Been there, done that, got the T-shirt...)

 

On a more personal level: I think that becomming a member of the TR-Register is a must. Like me, from overseas, the Register's information, database and personal attention when you need it, is great and heartwarming.

 

Menno

[TR 2100]

Menno,

 

Am I missing something - what's wrong with the thermostat housing?

 

TR2s had a different kind of switch for overdrive - not sure when

they changed to the pear-shaped switch - that's why I said I wasn't

sure if it had overdrive.

 

AlanR

[Menno van Rij]

Am I missing something - what's wrong with the thermostat housing?

 

Alan, you're right and I'm not. I was under the impression that the TR2 had a special thermostat housing for a longer period. But here's what I found on the VTR website:

 

A special thermostat housing located on the engine block was used on commission numbers TS1 through TS1200. On vehicles TS1 through approximately TS4 the radiator cap was located on the special thermostat housing. Beginning with approximately TS5 through TS1200 a triangular blanking plate was fitted to the top of the special thermostat housing since the radiator filler cap was now located on the radiator neck extension. Beginning with TS1201 and all through TR4A’s, the more familiar standard thermostat housing was used.

 

The blue one on the OP's link is the standard one.

 

Menno

 

 

[Benf]

'Fly to the UK'. I'm curious from which part of the Planet you live (not your address, off course )

 

Fair question:

The first British car I purchased was in the UK. Why? Because I didn't find what I wanted in the USA, and the resources to finish and maintain the car were better in the UK than in the US. I subsequently visited the UK to drive the car and I really enjoyed the UK vintage car scene. As a consequence, I've acquired a bunch of really great vintage car friends in the UK, and I make it a point to come over and visit them when I can. I am also ambivalent to LHD/RHD, and in some cases I think RHD suits the car much better (e.g. cars where the carbs are on the oft-side and the header exists on the near-side?). Prices for parts (if they come from the UK) are much cheaper than in the US. And in some cases hard-to-find parts are also easier found in the UK.

 

I also travel to Europe a moderate amount for business. Therefore, stopping off in the UK is generally quite easy to do.

 

Airfare to the UK is not substantially different than flying from Boston to California.

 

When I was shopping for my E-type I paid proper JCNA judges to inspect potential purchases, but truth be told one man's "nice driver" is another man's "needs a lot of attention." Therefore, I believe that one should never buy a car sight unseen. When I bought my E-type I flew/drove around for 5 months before I found the right car. It was also an excellent education to inspect cars for sale together with local club members.

 

 

Finally, Yes, generally I find the social aspect of these vintage clubs as rewarding as the cars!

 

Thanks for loads of good advice.

 

John

[Benf]

Oh, and I live outside of Boston, USA. So, it's just as far to the UK as it is to Los Angeles.

[stuart]

Hmm not keen on the colour and the non-original trim is definitely not to my taste either. (Would get grubby pretty quickly as well). Leaving that aside. It does have the correct pull type overdrive switch but incorrect grab handle which should be black and the wiring looks a bit of a mess under bonnet, even from those low res pictures its easy to see that the panel fit isnt very clever on doors, bonnet to front panel and also boot lid to back panel. With a bit more care and correct choice of colour/trim then it would be worth considerably more than its current estimate.

Stuart.

[Alec Pringle]

The car didn't sell this week at £18-20K estimate. Looking at the rest of the prices achieved, that doesn't surprise me. £20K hammer price = £22,350 after commission and vat.

 

Yes it's a nice enough looking car, but the personal choice of non-original paint and trim is always going to knock the resale value compared to a car restored to an original scheme. As for the panel fit, amateurish, which makes me wonder what the rest of the assembly process has been like. Just because £35K has supposedly been spent, that doesn't necessarily make it value for money expenditure. Certainly not a car I'd consider without close scrutiny and a proper road test. Even then, on the limited evidence of the pictures and description surely this has got to be more like £15-17K, not £20-22K ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[marko]

Alec,

 

I agree with you, this car has been for sale privately for several months to no avail.

 

That normally "smacks" of something not quite right with the quality of the work, overpriced or both.

 

Just my opinion......

[Paul Down]

The rear wheels appear to fit quite forward in the wheel arch and not central. Compared to the 3A on Markos site it looks definitely wrong! Poor bodywork?

[Benf]

The rear wheels appear to fit quite forward in the wheel arch and not central. Compared to the 3A on Markos site it looks definitely wrong! Poor bodywork?

 

 

All,

Many thanks for the helpful feedback. I too noticed the visually strange rear wheel position. I'll talk to Brightwells tomorrow about the price (how firm is the seller), but based on everyone's assessment it doesn't appear to be a good or even fair value.

 

Thanks again. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the right TR2 or TR3 pops up.

 

John

[Alec Pringle]

In my experience many classic cars put to auction are there for a good reason - usually pejorative, which is why they haven't sold previously either privately or off a forecourt or showroom. I said many, please note, not all !

 

Private owner looking to sell sees a similar car on a forecourt at £17K, assumes his is 'worth' the same £17K . . . . however, most dealers would take a monkey hit for cash, so that's £16.5K with the benefit to the buyer of having at least some potential come back. That buyer isn't going to want to pay more than £15K for a private sale with no come back. Nevertheless, our would-be seller has convinced himself he deserves £17K. So off to the smooth-talking auctioneer . . . . sellers commission at 5% means £17K net equates to £18K hammer price, and the 10% buyers commission raises that to £20K total.

 

That's how £15K private sale value becomes a £20K auction purchase, always assuming that there are two or three potential buyers daft enough to get carried away.

 

Caveat Emptor rules OK !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Tr4Tony]

Gentlemen - a sidescreen guru I know looked at this car for a friend some months ago. He didnt recommend a purchase and I trust this guy to know more about sidescreen cars than most, having built a few, so draw your own conclusions. My view was that it was worth looking at, but this based on pictures as we are all doing now. It was also a bit cheaper then!

 

BR Tony

[TR3BGeorge]

Ben

 

As Revingtons is mentioned in the Blurb contact them, I am sure they will give their expert opinion as they will be familiar with the car.

 

Sue

 

Hello Sue. Kudos on your photograph!! Is that Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower? The double-decker bus is a hoot! In Texas, we have to take photos of our cars in front of cow pastures, with all those meadow muffins in the background.

 

But not YOU!! What a shot!

 

Thanks!

[Benf]

Gentlemen - a sidescreen guru I know looked at this car for a friend some months ago.

 

BR Tony

 

 

Thanks Tony,

That's invaluable feedback. Everything looks better in the photos, and if an auction house is willing to put it in the catalog ... it doesn't imply the vehicle is an exceptional specimen.

 

John

[SuzanneH]

Hello Sue. Kudos on your photograph!! Is that Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower? The double-decker bus is a hoot! In Texas, we have to take photos of our cars in front of cow pastures, with all those meadow muffins in the background.

 

But not YOU!! What a shot!

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Hi George

 

Glad you like my Avatar, I guess most Americans would. Our car is not in the picture which is just one I grabbed of the web. It is Big Ben in the background and the Double decker bus is a British Leyland RMT which I grew up with, but are sadly only used as tourist buses in the city now. The reason for this particular picture is to represent the fact that I live in London and am a menber of the London Group of the TR REGISTER and the bus signifies that, believe it or not, I don't drive! The words "Inside The Road to Hell" are a refrence to a Chris Rea song(The Road to Hell) in which he is supposed to be singing about our London Ring Road the M25. Which truly is the road to hell!

If you want to see a picture of our TR4A together with me and my husband (RogerH - on this forum) just take a look at the cover of the latest TR Action number 241. Have you ever seen the cooking programme called Two Fat Ladies? it is a very British 'Jolly Hockey Sticks and Tally Ho' type programme. The lady (Jennifer) who drives the motorbike and sidecar has since died but the one who rides in the sidecar(and only just fits)Clarissa Dickson Wright reminds me of myself, in my flying helmet, in that photo. She is aso in another programme called Clarissa and the Countryman, worth watching if you get a chance.

What are Meadow Muffins, Cowpats????? or Oil Wells???

 

Sue

Edited March 30, 2010 by SuzanneH

[Benf]

Brightwells said someone already purchased that TR2 after the auction ended.

 

I hope it goes to a good home and gets driven and enjoyed.

 

John