ugly welds

[bnw]

How do you hide your ugly welds from rust repair?

[TR4AIRS]

I really need a bigger picture to see what happened there

 

You can't hide those, that would be like killing a man, burying him and pretend it never happened.

[bnw]

I'm out of posting space. How do I get more?

[Devs]

If you phycially weld a repair section patch over corroded metal, your welds will always be proud, however how proud they are depends upon the type of welding you choose (MIG, ARC, Oxy/Acetylene, TIG (I know nothing about TIG - so someone else will have to fill in the blanks for me).

 

However, if you remove the corrosion and fashion a repair section that can sit flush with the surrounding metal, you have more chance of your welds also sitting flush, again this depends on the type of welding style you've chosen. I can only MIG, ARC & Oxy/Acetylene & out of the 3 I would choose Oxy/Acetylene which can produce excellent flush welds with maximum penetration, although the heat distortion limits it use & it isn't a point and shoot, unlike MIG.

 

As the majority of bodies use MIG, depending on your settings, you can still produce a great quality weld with excellent penetration. Although the photo you've attached is quite small, it looks as though your welds generally sit on top of the metal, as opposed to penetrating into the metal. You haven't used excessive heat as there isn't any burning, just slight browning, so I guess it's a question of playing with your settings to ensure that you get maximum penetration without excessive heat.

 

To answer your question, the only way to hide ugly welds is to grind them down, which obviously thins the metal and then depending on what you've welded, makes the repair unsafe.

 

Preperation is also the key - the longer you spending cleaning the area and ensuring that your repair section fits perfectly, the easier it will be to weld.

 

Frosts sell the following which I've used numerous times with great sucess. It guarentees that your repair panel sits completely flush and are worth their weight! Frosts Intergrips

 

I will finish by saying that always buy the best welder you can afford, it makes a huge difference to the quality of your weld and I'd be happy to argue this one all day long. My little portable MIG welder hasn't produced a good weld in it's life. However my main welder (which I think is a 150a)is fantastic. I would always avoid buying a no-gas welder as I've no idea how you can produce a good penetrating weld without a cooling/protecting gas either. If anyone can enlighten me, I'm all ears!

Edited February 23, 2010 by Devs

[TomMull]

How do you hide your ugly welds from rust repair?

 

The quick answer is not to make them in the first place, but that is much more easily said than done. I'm on my first restoration and certainly no expert but I have been making ugly welds for some time now.

Welding in a repair piece requires lots of different skills and I have found no easy way to do it. Here are my thoughts: Plan your repairs to minimize welding. Usually the edges of a whole panel are much easier to do. Flat areas are the hardest to deal with. Use curved areas and swages to your advantage. If it in a place that shows, you probably can't mig weld a butt seam (as in your picture). You might be able to tack along every inch or so and fill the gaps with lead or bondo but even this is not easy to do. Another option is to put a flange (or a backing strip) on the back side of the repair or the original panel and mig plug weld or spot weld it. I use a spot welder which is quicker and distorts less if I can get at both sides.

I have also had some success with oxy/acetylene butt welding, particularly if the part is off the car and on the bench. If you use very little filler, none preferably, you are left with no ridge to grind. With that, even if you are good enough or lucky enough to get a good weld, you will need to get to both sides to beat the warpage out of the panels. Probably requires as much panel beating skill as welding.

I know some restorers like tig but Ive no experience with that. It would be interesting to hear from others on any of this.

Tom Mulligan

[Kiwifrog]

that looks like the rear floor section of a pre TS60000 TR3A. To hide it on top use carpets underneath stonechip ? It looks like a mig weld so depending on the penetration you could try and grind off the excess metal. Before trying another panel I would get some practice in on some scrap so that you can get the mig settings just right before the next go. I have had a mig for a number of years and I still can't do a decent looking weld with it every time . Welding panels is something that practice and patience can bring thats why the professionals like Stuart are paid the big bucks (or should be!!)

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[stuart]

Welding panels is something that practice and patience can bring thats why the professionals like Stuart are paid the big bucks (or should be!!)

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Hmm I wish! It does look as if the penetration hasn't been adequate and the wire speed is too high so its puddling on top and not sinking and melting the two edges together. Thats just a case of playing around with scrap until you have a good idea of what the different settings will do. TIG is great for less distortion and is very similar to gas welding but without the heat distortion often associated with that but you do need good hand to eye co-ordination and steady hands as well. A foot control is also a great help for them.

Stuart.

[bnw]

Thanks for all the great advice. It is (I'm) getting better as I proceed with the project and I'm probably way too concerned as to how the underside will look when done. I'm going to grind as much as feasible and then try a brush on seam sealer to clean it up. Most of what I'm doing is a cover up of someone else's horrible repair. My car, TS19009 was raced for many years at Road Atlanta, Road America, and Mid Ohio, had at least one rear end collision and from the look of the filler on the rear section the gas tank filler goes through, possibly rolled over. Then, I'd guess it sat outside, filled at least 2 to 3 inches with water, then rotted. The guy before me bought all new sheet metal, fenders, quarters, small mouth nose and rear valance but never put it all together. Supposedly, he was ready for reassembly when I bought the project. The tub, however, never should have left the junk yard.

[pfenlon]

How do you hide your ugly welds from rust repair?

 

 

We have a knowlegable guru on the forum, who comes up with some very simple statements that you wish you had thought of yourself.

 

onle a short time ago a gem was mentioned which said "never weld where you cant grind" Dont you just hate this advice which cannot be questioned.

[tr3aproj]

How do you hide your ugly welds from rust repair?

 

 

You cut them out and weld in a new piece to correct the original welding problem. I was told by an experienced old welder that there are no mistakes in welding just more welding.

Cheers,

Robert

[Don Elliott]

I cut cardboard patterns to fit where I needed to do any welding repairs. Then I cut sheetmetal and cleaned where I was going to weld. I used "C" clamps to hold the patch into place. All mine were edge-to-edge. My MIG is a SIP that I bought in 1987. I did my 1958 TR3A from 1987 to 1990. After welding as per all the welding books told me, I used a 4" grinder to get the excess welds close to level. Then I used a power file to finish it flush, at least on the outer side where it might be seen. Another name for this is a belt sander.

 

There are two available right now from Harbour Freight - one takes a 1/2" belt and the cheaper unit (the page before) is 3/8" wide.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97055

 

I did half the work on mine with a Black and Decker 110V power file. See photo from 1989. It's didn't last too long so I bought a 5/8" wide power file which is operated by my air compressor.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Don Elliott

[Ian Vincent]

angle grinder and dremel works for me!

 

Rgds Ian

[bnw]

You cut them out and weld in a new piece to correct the original welding problem. I was told by an experienced old welder that there are no mistakes in welding just more welding.

Cheers,

Robert

 

 

 

Here's another good one I just heard: "When you get sick of grinding, your welds will improve."

[TomMull]

angle grinder and dremel works for me!

 

Rgds Ian

 

Ian,

Sorry to belabor this thread but good welding seems to be a necessity for an acceptable restoration. Lots of good advice for smoothing ridges but that's only half the problem. As the ridges get thicker, so does the distortion, at least for me. I can tack sheet metal with mig with almost no distortion but as soon as I fill in between, the distortion sets in. I find it about impossible to beat the distortion out of a mig weld. That's why I avoid mig where ever I can find another way to do it, or tack weld without fill in welding between. Any advice here?

Tom

[Don Elliott]

I MIG welded all my patches into place with tacks one after the other about 1/2" apart and allowed the sheetmetal to cool between tacks. I used the hammer to make it flat again. Often, I would grind and power file the excess away before hammering it flat again and continuing with the tacks and/or before I would fill in the gaps. All my welds came out flat and smooth. If I got distortion that was unacceptable to me, I would start over.

 

Can you see the "seam welds" I did about 3 inches in from the fender trim on the top of the inner wing and then all around where you can see the bases for the Dzus fasteners. This is all new sheetmetal. Same for the patches along the bottom 8" of each of the front fenders just along in front of the door hinge points.

 

Also all the lower half of the rear valance and below underneath.

[Kiwifrog]

Ian,

Sorry to belabor this thread but good welding seems to be a necessity for an acceptable restoration. Lots of good advice for smoothing ridges but that's only half the problem. As the ridges get thicker, so does the distortion, at least for me. I can tack sheet metal with mig with almost no distortion but as soon as I fill in between, the distortion sets in. I find it about impossible to beat the distortion out of a mig weld. That's why I avoid mig where ever I can find another way to do it, or tack weld without fill in welding between. Any advice here?

Tom

 

 

Tom

 

If you "tap" the welds with a hammer and dolly while they are still hot, this releases a lot of the strains built up caused by heating the metal and makes the final tidying up easier. Do not hit hard or you will stretch the metal and always have the dolly under where you are tapping for the same reason. Practice on some scrap first

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[Ian Vincent]

Ian,

Sorry to belabor this thread but good welding seems to be a necessity for an acceptable restoration. Lots of good advice for smoothing ridges but that's only half the problem. As the ridges get thicker, so does the distortion, at least for me. I can tack sheet metal with mig with almost no distortion but as soon as I fill in between, the distortion sets in. I find it about impossible to beat the distortion out of a mig weld. That's why I avoid mig where ever I can find another way to do it, or tack weld without fill in welding between. Any advice here?

Tom

 

 

Tom,

 

When I repaired the bottom of my front wings, I was really careful to shape my new bits carefully and to line it all up with intergrips before tacking everything in place. I then gave it a chance to cool before going back to fill in tacks between my original tacks and repeated the process until I had finished the join - the result, a ripply panel! So I said what the h*ll and leaded it. If anyone goes scavenging around under the front wing with a torch (after removing the mudshields) he will spot that it has been repaired. Life's too short.

 

Rgds Ian

[john.r.davies]

carpet?

 

John

[Cleo's Dad]

Can't help with the distortion problem, but do strongly suggest (if you haven't dicovered them already) that you try using a Sanding "flap-disc" in your 4" grinder for removing the excess weld. These work a treat, much less agressive and more controlable than a grinding wheel and leave a very smooth surface. Good for preparation too.

Happy grinding

Clive