boggie Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi All, I have nearly completed a complete brake replacement but in doing so have created a big problem. I replaced both rear drum brake cylinders and fitted new shoes etc. The drums are in excellent condition with no ridges, the pistons are pressed fully into their bores and the adjusters are wound right off. However the drums were very difficult to fit over the new shoes so after an hour of cursing I filed a slight chamfer on the edge of the friction material and used my big rubber mallet to thump the first drum into place. When I finished I centred the shoes with the handbrake lever and the hub turned ok with very slight binding / rubbing so all was well. I then repeated the procedure on the driver's side but it took more thump to get the drum on. When I tried to centre the shoes with the handbrake lever there was no movement at all and so the drum was effectively seized. I fitted the wheel to get more leverage but even using all of my strength I cannot budge the wheel at all. I need to get the drum off so I can resolve the problem, I am considering removing a little of the metal shoe where it sits against the cylinder piston but the drum is stuck fast. No matter how much I bash the rear edge (which is hard to get to) I cannot budge it at all. Have any of you any advice or is there a tool / puller etc to get stuck hubs off? If not I may need to try and carefully cut the drum in half with my grinder but obviously I want to avoid that if at all possible. Thanks, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi Ian, oh dear what have you done!!! part of the problem in hammering it off is that the brake shoes will flex and absorb the bash of the hammer. Using a metal hammer with an Ali/brass drift and bash the drum around its circumference - you will need plenty of force. Is the adjuster fully extracted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 You could try heating the drum with a blow torch then using 2 hammers tap the drum on the sides while someone else tries to lever it off with a large screwdriver. Has worked for me in the past Cheers Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 I had a similar problem. I found that the new shoes are a different radius to the original ST linings. I replaced them with 2nd hand ST and now my handbrake is a bit weak but the drums no longer get hot after a 3 mile run with no use at all. Why don't these suppliers put in an extra 10 minutes and get the specification correct. Good luck Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks Guys, Time got away from us this afternoon. I had to leave my Dad's to avoid disappointing 2 little girls at story time so the drum is still stuck fast and will have to await my next visit but from what I can see it looks like the shoes are slightly oversized. I am getting pretty damn tired of the additional problems buying parts from the big 'M' have caused us. As I only get 1 weekend per month at my Dad's (and he lives 200 miles away) time is precious but this weekend I spent more than half of it trying to solve unexpected issues brought about by the questionable quality of 'M' parts. I only set myself 2 jobs to do; finish fitting the new loom (engine bay) and fit new brakes (shoes, cylinders and callipers). This should have been easy over 3 days but for the oversized brake shoes and faulty regulator. Because of these components I left the car with these two new 'M' issues yet to be resolved; the drum is stuck fast and the regulator needs either replacing or adjusting - it took quite a while to ascertain that the charging issues were not my wiring! It's just bloody pants. I would rather have spent double the money to have quality components and not wasted my time. Are there any alternatives who can supply quality parts? I have spoken to a couple of other suppliers but they tell me they get their parts from similar suppliers of even direct from M. Pah! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi Ian, I can find you a set of Lockheed (Delphi) shoes if that helps, I know I have a couple of spare sets . . . . they've fitted other TRs no problem. I may have a relevant puller I could post up for you to borrow if all else fails - let me know and I'll have a hunt tomorrow. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi Ian, I can find you a set of Lockheed (Delphi) shoes if that helps, I know I have a couple of spare sets . . . . they've fitted other TRs no problem. I may have a relevant puller I could post up for you to borrow if all else fails - let me know and I'll have a hunt tomorrow. Cheers, Alec Alec, That would be very helpful and much appreciated (especially the puller!). I am off to my Dad's at the end of July so there is no immediate rush but PM me with details please and we can go from there. Many thanks, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 And Ian, try tapping one of the wheel studs with a block of wood and hammer to rotate the drum. I've found this often starts the loosening process. Car out of gear of course, and adequate safety blocks under the chassis and chocking the front wheels. If you've kept the original correct radius shoes, get the local brake shop to bond on new linings. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Not wishing to insult your intelligence, but have you removed the two screws securing the drum to the hub? Also many years ago I had to use a hammer to remove a hub, and all I succeeded in doing was to break the lip off of the casting, so do be careful, I ended up using a large hub puller with a few TAPS not BASHES around the circumference of the drum opposite the brake shoes and then tightening the puller a bit more followed by more taps and so on. As they used to say on the radio years ago "GENTLY BENTLEY" Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve clark Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Alec, That would be very helpful and much appreciated (especially the puller!). I am off to my Dad's at the end of July so there is no immediate rush but PM me with details please and we can go from there. Many thanks, Ian I cannot remember how they are fixed on but is it possible to release the wheel cylinder and brake anchour from the rear of the back plate allowing the whole brake assembly to be pulled off? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Worth a try on a car with the brake shoes just sitting against a peg jutting out from the backing plate. Depends if the assembled shoes with return springs attached will clear, or can be juggled over the hub. Stuart might know. But not on cars where the brake shoes are held by a pin through the backing plate, and a coil spring and retaining clip on the front of the shoe. Regards, Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Been thinking about this and unfortunately like you say Viv the shoes wont pass the hub in a straight line (pull off springs are in the way as well) although you can release the cylinder by removing the mounting plates the shoes wont come off the cylinder as there isnt enough room to turn it or push it in far enough and the same applies to the adjuster. The hold down clips (if fitted) could be removed by careful grinding off of the heads where they sit in the back plate.but that still wouldnt help you. The problem could be made worse if there was any sort of lip on the drum and the linings are now inside it. I think the only way is going to be either a puller and some careful tapping around the circumference of the rim or as I had to do to a Fergy T20 the other day (untouched for forty years outside) was actually smash the drum with a large tapping stick. Bit brutal but even with the drum red hot it wasnt going anywhere. (All restored and looking lovely now well its a cousin to a TR ) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 This should have been easy over 3 days but for the oversized brake shoes and faulty regulator. Because of these components I left the car with these two new 'M' issues yet to be resolved; the drum is stuck fast and the regulator needs either replacing or adjusting - it took quite a while to ascertain that the charging issues were not my wiring! Ian I have tried a couple of repro regulators and they are ****, if they work in the first instance they tend to go out of adjustment quite quickly. Its best to go to a breakers and try and find a second hand one, they were used on just about all the 60's and early 70's BL cars morrisses austins MGs etc so should be a some around. I have bought a couple off of ebay for around a fiver and they generally work Cheers Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have a large collection of control boxes which I have bought from different suppliers. The new ones have all been useless. I have also bought old used ones off e bay for about £5.00 and had some success. The best answer is to buy an old one and send it to Cox automotive in Atherstone Warwickshire who overhauled mine for about £30.00 and set it up to the correct output for my car, electric fan etc. They know what they are doing, and have a workshop with a friendly lady who answers the telephone. It is not some punter in a caravan with the same dodgy units available from the east. So far my control box is working very well, but we are still under 1000 miles of testing. I feel that the old units are better made with the correct steel and need cleaning and setting up in a workshop by someone who knows what they are doing. Adjustment on the car has never been successful for me in spite of having the Lucas training manual. I also sent my dynamo to them at the same time so that they could be matched. My collection also has a nos Lucas screw terminal RB106/2 which I treasure and view as an investment for the grandchildren. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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