Richardtr3a Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 My battery was losing fluid too quickly. Even a couple of weeks of short runs would mean toppping up again. After some advice I understood that my regulator was pushing out too many volts. I should know better after all my troubles, but on Sunday I opened it up and with a volt meter attached reduced the output from the regulator to 15 volts. This only required a small adjustment, anticlockwise of about 1/8" I went for a trial run of about 80 miles and noticed on the way back that the ammeter would not move past the middle position. It would not show charge. If you put the lights on it would show discharge saticfactorily. I tried to adjust the regulator back to the original position but it made no difference.I can not beleive that I took off the lid and now have a problem. All I had to do was buy water and top up now and again. Can anyone explain what has happened and how I am in this position yet again? Thank you , Richard TR3A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I went for a trial run of about 80 miles and noticed on the way back that the ammeter would not move past the middle position. It would not show charge. If you put the lights on it would show discharge saticfactorily. Sounds perfectly OK to me. After 80 miles charging at 15V (shouldn't that be something like 13.6V?) the battery is probably fully charged, so why would you expect the ammeter to show it taking a charge? However, an electrician I ain't, so I'm sure I'll be corrected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Richard, You haven't said whether the discharge shown when the lights were switched on was with the engine off, ticking over or running at, say, 1800 rpm. If it was the latter, you have a problem. If either the 1st or 2nd case, I would agree with Brian that everything seems perfectly normal. Unlike alternators, dynamos don't do much until one is running at about 1300 rpm - even then it's not much! When the battery is fully charged, the ammeter will be almost at zero (mid-point). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Satchwell Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Sound normal to me as well, and this is how my car acts. Running the car up to 2000 rpm ish after start up and she charges but soon after and when driving the needle points vertically down ie no charge or discharge. When the lights are on at low revs discharge shows but driving along above 2000 rpm and needle settles straight down or very slightly positive. I run a maintenance free battery and over the last two year all is well, nothing to top up! All the best Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Is it possible that you are adding too much water each time. If you do, it will bubble when it's charging and if the liquid level is too high, it will spit out the top as if it's boiling. All I do is keep the lead plates covered with liquid. My battery is starting its 7th summer and I just checket it at 12.34 volts. This number of course depends on how accurate my voltmeter is, but I know when it's there, my TR3A will start and run. My ammeter stays at no charge when I'm driving, but if I tap the brake pedal or use the directional signals, I can see the ammeter going about 2 amps discharge. In fact, that's how I know my tail lights are working or not. If I turn on my headlights and my heater fan, it shows about 6 or 8 amps discharge. When I also turn on my Kenlowe fan, it goes to minus 30 amps for a second or two and then stabilises at about minus 15 amps. But I don't leave the fan on for long. When I accelerate, I see the generator charging up to about 15 or 16 amps (as the cut-out value quoted in the manuals), then it will cut out and the needle drops to zero charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 The ammeter needle will not move past the middle position at any revs and will show major discharge if the headlights are on. This was not happening before the adjustment. I should have known better. I understand that when the battery is fully charged after starting the needle will and should stay at "0" The red light glimmers at 2000 rpm and above and and stays at glimmer until the revs drop to 800. I have called the auto electrician and he has explained to me how satisfactory an alternator would be. I want to keep the dynamo and have a small collection of old 2nd hand units to show him. I would like to understand what I have done by making the adjustment. The simple answer is "you have broken it". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I appreciate that this is of no help to you, but, I wonder why, in this day and age, no-one manufactures a solid state gubbins that goes inside the regulator box. This should get rid of the mechanical aspect to be replaced by reliability, yet still look original. They do it with an alternator...... Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Lucas reckoned that every time someone took the cover off one of their Voltage regulators they made a fiver (£5) you need the write up, an analogue voltmeter, (AVO8 ideal), and the gods with you to correctly adjust one of these units. When alternators are so cheap these days why bother. Surely electrical reliability has never been more affordable? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Last summer, the red ignition light came on about 10 times and stayed on. During this, the ammeter would stay at zero. This told me that as soon as the engine would be cool (get home and shut it off) that I'd have to put the small wellow wire back onto the connection on the back of the generator. It gets to be a bit like seeing an old friend more and more often. Check it out. Also remove the cover of the regulator and manually click the contacts so they close and open again. This has helped me more than once and I'm still running my TR with the original voltage regulator which is now 51 years old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I wonder why, in this day and age, no-one manufactures a solid state gubbins that goes inside the regulator box. This should get rid of the mechanical aspect to be replaced by reliability, yet still look original. It really shouldn't be necessary. The voltage regulators worked reliably for years in many cars of TR and earlier vintage, and were adjutable without wreaking havoc. There are obviously a lot of extremely poor reproduction and refurbished items on the market. It's probably worth trying http://www.theelectricalpartscompanyltd.com/. I have spoken to them at autojumbles and bought a few smaller items - not cheap but either original or decent quality repro. They seem to have reasonable stocks of most items and access to some original manufacturers and tooling and have very strong opinions of some of the junk available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 It really shouldn't be necessary. The voltage regulators worked reliably for years in many cars of TR and earlier vintage, and were adjutable without wreaking havoc. There are obviously a lot of extremely poor reproduction and refurbished items on the market. It's probably worth trying http://www.theelectricalpartscompanyltd.com/. I have spoken to them at autojumbles and bought a few smaller items - not cheap but either original or decent quality repro. They seem to have reasonable stocks of most items and access to some original manufacturers and tooling and have very strong opinions of some of the junk available. Their control boxes do seem very cheap mind. I have had intermittent quality problems with some repro boxes but my suppliers (TR Shop) are always happy to replace them if their is a problem. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Last night after a beer, I tried to adjust the regulator to charge higher and moved the screw adjuster a bout 1/4". Now I have plenty of charge and the red light has gone out firmly. My mistake was not realising that moving the screw back to the original position would not necessarily restore the output to the original volume. I have booked an auto electrician for later this week and he will probably have better tools than I have. Where can I buy a moving coil voltmeter as specified in the manual? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Last night after a beer, I tried to adjust the regulator to charge higher and moved the screw adjuster a bout 1/4". Now I have plenty of charge and the red light has gone out firmly. My mistake was not realising that moving the screw back to the original position would not necessarily restore the output to the original volume. I have booked an auto electrician for later this week and he will probably have better tools than I have. Where can I buy a moving coil voltmeter as specified in the manual? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Where can I buy a moving coil voltmeter as specified in the manual? I have a moving coil meter, they were state of the art 50 years ago but even the cheapest modern DMM is much more accurate. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I have a moving coil meter, they were state of the art 50 years ago but even the cheapest modern DMM is much more accurate. Ivor Point is the moving coil ones are easier to read the needle on a scale when output is fluctuating rather than the digital type where the numbers are just flashing up and down. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hi Richard, Radio Shack used to sell them, but if not try the following websites: http://www.rapidonline.co.uk http://www.maplin.co.uk http://uk.rs-online.com/web/ There are still places that sell moving coil multimeters, (analogue mutlimeters), but they tend to be more expensive than digital for a quality one. For car purposes, you can probably use a low cost one (circa £10-15). Incidentally the 1970s Haynes manual on car electrics by Tony Tranter gives a good explanation of the controller and how to adjust it. Good luck TT Last night after a beer, I tried to adjust the regulator to charge higher and moved the screw adjuster a bout 1/4". Now I have plenty of charge and the red light has gone out firmly.My mistake was not realising that moving the screw back to the original position would not necessarily restore the output to the original volume. I have booked an auto electrician for later this week and he will probably have better tools than I have. Where can I buy a moving coil voltmeter as specified in the manual? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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