OIL catch tank

[Tom Fremont]

The beauty of Stan's and my method, as well as the TR250 original is the fuel delivery system ( carbs or whatever ) are held harmless from the crankcase emissions; they're fed downstream into the manifold.

[Guest ntc]

The beauty of Stan's and my method, as well as the TR250 original is the fuel delivery system ( carbs or whatever ) are held harmless from the crankcase emissions; they're fed downstream into the manifold.

 

See my previous post Tom and the link .It is the position of Stan's valve and the fact he has split the airflow to the servo that worries me

 

Neil

[vanflyer]

If you look at early A series or B series engine installations, Midget or Cambridge the rocker cover breather pipe was connected straight into the air cleaner, no PCV valve. PCVs are for emission control and condensation scavenging rather than anything else. SO if this is the cae and the engine has a chance to warm up then a catch tank or direct air cleaner connection would be OK. it worked in the early sixties so wouldn't it still be OK today?

[foster461]

Hi Stan

I am still with you on this and it has made 1st page on google uk search ( oil separator pcv valve) ,good for the register . However rained off work today so i have been doing a bit of research on this I noticed most all of the valves are fitted on top of the valve cover to drain any oil back hopes this helps http://www.106rallye.co.uk/members/dynofie...thersystems.pdf

 

Neil

 

Good job Neil, that is a great paper.

 

Stan

[88V8]

If it is an oil separator that sits inline with the existing ventilation system then it might help reduce the amount of **** that gets combusted

 

Perhaps I'm warming to this.

Particularly as my BP7ES plugs seem to be only marginally hot enough, and removing the oil blow-by from the combustion intake would presumably help the plugs not to foul.

 

Ivor

[foster461]

If you look at early A series or B series engine installations, Midget or Cambridge the rocker cover breather pipe was connected straight into the air cleaner, no PCV valve. PCVs are for emission control and condensation scavenging rather than anything else. SO if this is the cae and the engine has a chance to warm up then a catch tank or direct air cleaner connection would be OK. it worked in the early sixties so wouldn't it still be OK today?

 

I think the diference is the P in PCV. If you just have a tube from the valve cover, or a draft tube (the early form of an active system), or a tube into a bucket or even a tube into an air cleaner I would say you have crankcase ventilation but not Positive Crankcase Ventilation. By connecting the valve cover into the manifold you have some negative pressure to actively draw vapor from the crankcase. The PCV valve is there to govern that process and operate the ventilation system under conditions are optimal for that purpose.

 

Stan

[stuart]

Thats correct Stan positive is the operative word. The 4a type has a rubber diaphragm inside and you could always tell when the diapraghm had given up on my old 4a as the car would run very different.

Stuart.

[smizgals]

Well, obviously a topic of some interest. I have a stock PI system with the standard plenum etc, and judging from the general comments it wont hurt and may well be helpful, so I'll stick it on and watch the situation. Thanks

 

Robin,

 

Where did you source it? Will you install it in line, i.e. with gases going into plenum? Or with gases out to atmosphere?

 

Stan

[Tom Fremont]

See my previous post Tom and the link .It is the position of Stan's valve and the fact he has split the airflow to the servo that worries me

 

Neil

 

A worthy treatise, Neil, and informative. My system attempts to duplicate the factory set-up on the TR250 and in fact employs the very PCV valve used thereon, possibly eliminating a lot of trial and error . The supplemental air on mine is drawn through a 1/8" orifice hidden inside the rear air cleaner, again duplicating the size of the factory orifice hidden inside its air cleaner housing. I guess I believe in copying what works to the extent practicable

 

As for Stan's set-up, it seems to me that with a constant flow of gases past the servo connection, little chance is afforded for unwanted fluids to work their way toward the servo. My PCV valve is higher than the servo connection too and it's never caused any problem FWIW.

 

Regarding oil separation, I employ the factory valve cover on both my engines, and so far the separation baffle provided has been satisfactory. I suppose the aftermarket covers should be scrutinized for this provision...

[Guest ntc]

Hi Tom

On the picture you posted I cannot see where the pipe from the valve cover connects or is it just not split into the servo line yet?

 

Thanks

Neil

Edited August 8, 2008 by ntc

[foster461]

Regarding oil separation, I employ the factory valve cover on both my engines, and so far the separation baffle provided has been satisfactory. I suppose the aftermarket covers should be scrutinized for this provision...

 

I recently replaced the aftermarket valve cover with the straightened and repainted original because the alu model had no baffle or filter so it was spewing more oil than it had to and it also has a filler lid with a hole in it and that was spreading muck on the back of the engine. Once I reverted back to the original all that stopped. The aftermarket cover also had no flange to accomodate the cork gasket so it just sat on top of the gasket and looked like a bodge.

 

Stan

[Guest ntc]

I recently replaced the aftermarket valve cover with the straightened and repainted original because the alu model had no baffle or filter so it was spewing more oil than it had to and it also has a filler lid with a hole in it and that was spreading muck on the back of the engine. Once I reverted back to the original all that stopped. The aftermarket cover also had no flange to accomodate the cork gasket so it just sat on top of the gasket and looked like a bodge.

 

Stan

 

Hi Stan

Over here we can get the alloy cover with a reamed groove and neoprene gasket so no oil leaks

Neil

Edited August 8, 2008 by ntc

[Tom Fremont]

Hi Tom

On the picture you posted I cannot see where the pipe from the valve cover connects or is it just not split into the servo line yet?

 

Thanks

Neil

 

It connects to an upside-down T which feeds the PCV valve and also collects air from the filter. The servo hose connects to a pipe direcctly under the PCV valve.

[Guest ntc]

It connects to an upside-down T which feeds the PCV valve and also collects air from the filter. The servo hose connects to a pipe direcctly under the PCV valve.

 

I can see the servo hose connected under the PCV valve but I can't see the other, hose clips etc, it must be near the exhaust somewhat ???????

[foster461]

I can see the servo hose connected under the PCV valve but I can't see the other, hose clips etc, it must be near the exhaust somewhat ???????

 

As I undertstand it Tom has a threaded bango into the inlet manifold which the pancake PCV valve screws into. That banjo also has a dedicated connection to the servo.

 

He has a pipe from the valve cover into one arm of a T connector that sits right under the horizontal tube of teh PCV valve. The other arm of that T goes to the air filter. The vertical part of the T goes into the horizontal tube of the PCV. So the PCV is sucking in clean filtered air combined with the crankase vapor from the valve cover.

 

We dont see all of that T in any of the images that I have seen, it is implied :-)

 

Stan

[Tom Fremont]

I can see the servo hose connected under the PCV valve but I can't see the other, hose clips etc, it must be near the exhaust somewhat ???????

 

Stan's right, and the picture doesn't suffice

 

The valve cover hose ( original shape with 2 x 90s ) makes a straight shot across the tee ( which is covered by hoses and obscured by the throttle linkage shaft). It's well clear of the exhaust manifold. The PCV valve is not threaded; it is a push fit into the adapter as per the original manifold.

 

On my other car the hose goes over the throttle shaft, which sits higher on the one shown.

[Guest ntc]

As I undertstand it Tom has a threaded bango into the inlet manifold which the pancake PCV valve screws into. That banjo also has a dedicated connection to the servo.

 

He has a pipe from the valve cover into one arm of a T connector that sits right under the horizontal tube of teh PCV valve. The other arm of that T goes to the air filter. The vertical part of the T goes into the horizontal tube of the PCV. So the PCV is sucking in clean filtered air combined with the crankase vapor from the valve cover.

 

We dont see all of that T in any of the images that I have seen, it is implied :-)

 

Stan

 

Sorry now I see it

Edited August 8, 2008 by ntc

[Bald Rick]

Hi Stan,

 

Baps, barm cakes and muffins aren't always what they're labelled

 

That should have our transatlantic friends hunting through Wikipedia !!!

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Alec

 

You forgot stottie cakes

 

Tony

[Guest ntc]

Alec

 

You forgot stottie cakes

 

Tony

 

Why do we bother doing this ? bloody cakes ?

Edited August 8, 2008 by ntc

[88V8]

You forgot stottie cakes

 

And parkin.

Soft southerner...

 

And Neil, cakes make as much sense as the rest of this thread - never has such an arcane subject generated so much activity...

 

Ivor

[foster461]

And parkin.

Soft southerner...

 

And Neil, cakes make as much sense as the rest of this thread - never has such an arcane subject generated so much activity...

 

Ivor

 

Ivor, I have to agree with Neil and object to this sudden topic drift. Up until now, including Stottie Cake, we have been discussing bread products and Parkin in clearly a cake.

 

 

Stan

[Guest ntc]

And parkin.

Soft southerner...

 

And Neil, cakes make as much sense as the rest of this thread - never has such an arcane subject generated so much activity...

 

Ivor

 

Ivor it may be a mystery to you but the rest of the world is trying to learn ways of improving TR engine breathing

 

Neil

[Alec Pringle]

Oy,

 

less of the Soft Southerner, pal. Our Bald Rick's from Wigan, and I'm from Manchester and Bolton, so if you fancy an argument . . .

 

At least you can eat cake, which is more than you can do with catch tanks.

 

Or is it too much cake leading to an excess of avoirdupois, and hence the need for improved TR engine breathing ?

 

My mother used to make Rock Cakes when I were a lad in Lancashire. They could make strong men weep, as in when their teeth shattered, and even our Staffordshire Bull Terriers - who chewed coal for a pastime - baulked at Rock Cakes. Mother reckoned she'd learned to make them in the ATS during the war - she was in the Pay Corps, gawd only knows what might have happened if they'd put her in the Artillery. Thank heavens they didn't.

 

Anyway, as a small boy I substituted a Rock Cake for the usual potato, rammed it up the exhaust of Uncle Ken's TR2 (with the aid of a lump hammer) and watched giggling as he tried to start the beggar. All well and good, until Stan Part gained mastery over Mother's finest, and the remains of the Rock Cake rocketed through the asbestos sheet wall of Dad's new garage. Uncle Ken pissed himself, Dad went ape, and my tanned *rs* hurt for days !!

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Guest ntc]

Oy,

 

less of the Soft Southerner, pal. Our Bald Rick's from Wigan, and I'm from Manchester and Bolton, so if you fancy an argument . . .

 

At least you can eat cake, which is more than you can do with catch tanks.

 

Or is it too much cake leading to an excess of avoirdupois, and hence the need for improved TR engine breathing ?

 

My mother used to make Rock Cakes when I were a lad in Lancashire. They could make strong men weep, as in when their teeth shattered, and even our Staffordshire Bull Terriers - who chewed coal for a pastime - baulked at Rock Cakes. Mother reckoned she'd learned to make them in the ATS during the war - she was in the Pay Corps, gawd only knows what might have happened if they'd put her in the Artillery. Thank heavens they didn't.

 

Anyway, as a small boy I substituted a Rock Cake for the usual potato, rammed it up the exhaust of Uncle Ken's TR2 (with the aid of a lump hammer) and watched giggling as he tried to start the beggar. All well and good, until Stan Part gained mastery over Mother's finest, and the remains of the Rock Cake rocketed through the asbestos sheet wall of Dad's new garage. Uncle Ken pissed himself, Dad went ape, and my tanned *rs* hurt for days !!

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Alec/Ivor/Tony the place you are looking for is AT THE BAR

Edited August 8, 2008 by ntc

[foster461]

Getting back to the pllot..

 

Here is a PCV based ventilation system implemented by this MBG owner. This is an interesting arrangement because it is a closed system and it looks like excess oil drains back into a port on the side of the engine. The PCV valve operates in the line that goes to the manifold.

 

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e119/fos...VsetuponMGB.jpg

 

Stan