RobinTR6 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Recently fitted some greenstuff EBC pads to my CP TR6, no problems. However in use especially when brakes applied gently they screech very loudly, have removed and cleaned all dust with vacumn cleaner and no change.Any clues Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hi Robin I too have EBC Greenstuff pads - I have not had any problem with squealing at all... However, my lad has EBC on his Spit and he fairly frequently takes them out, cleans things up and re-assembles to alleviate minor squeal... I haven't a clue as to why one should be different from t'other. Rgds Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Have you fitted anti-squeal shims? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IanR Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Robin, Richard is right if I understand his meaning. If you have fitted anti squeal SHIMS ie the steel type that you use with conventional pads then you you should remove them and fit the EBC black plastic pad to the back of the brake pad. If you dont have these I guess they can be got form EBC but it is only a thin piece of self stick soft plastic. It will however stop the squealing you are experiencing. I had a similar problem just after EBC came on the market and I had the normal anti squeal shims in. At that time the received wisdom was just to not fit the shims but now I think you should have got the plastic pads in your packet!!?? Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CONCRETE24 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I use the EBC pads and the original anti squeal shims with a liberal coating of copper grease on the back, and have no problem with squealing. However, if you want to try the EBC anti-squeal pads - Moss sell them. Don't think they are very expensive. Regards, Michael. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I use the EBC pads and the original anti squeal shims with a liberal coating of copper grease on the back, and have no problem with squealing. However, if you want to try the EBC anti-squeal pads - Moss sell them. Don't think they are very expensive. Regards, Michael. Guess what, have fitted the plastic shims (black self adhesive) AND cooper ease and yes they are screeching (loudly). Notably the old worn pads were silent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ron Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 This must be down to luck and the particular car, when I put mine on the road at first with standard pads and shims there was occasionally a slight squeal, I changed to Greenstuff pads [to cut down on the wheel dust] with standard shims and the squeal disappeared Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Robin, Richard is right if I understand his meaning. I actualy meant the standard SS plates; I use these with coper grease as Michael & have no problems but I run on (old) standard Ferodo pads! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richarddean9 Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Recently fitted some greenstuff EBC pads to my CP TR6, no problems. However in use especially when brakes applied gently they screech very loudly, have removed and cleaned all dust with vacumn cleaner and no change.Any clues Hello Robin I fitted EBC pads to my TR5 and found that they screeched very badly after only a couple of miles There was an article on brakes in the TR Action magazine some months ago which explained that when the brakes are applied the pads have to be able to move about very slightly in the calipers and in a radial direction (in the direction of the rotation of the revolving disc) If the fit of the pads into the calipers (top & bottom) or onto the pins is too tight, then the pads and caliper become in effect a solid piece of metal, because they cannot move, or take up a natural position during braking, and it is this that causes the screech, as the resonance is transmitted through the caliper to the disc itself The cure is simple Take out the pads and file the top and bottom faces of the metal backplate of the pads that sit onto the caliper untill you can slide them in and out easily and with out too much rattle (they will only need about 4-5 strokes with a light to medium course file) Next check the pins in the holes - make sure these slide freely and do not bind in anyway - again file lightly if necessary I did this on my car and now no more screeching and because the pads move more easily the brakes are a lot better Hope this helps Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Hi Richard, ...the pads have to be able to move about very slightly in the calipers and in a radial direction (in the direction of the rotation of the revolving disc)Please would you clarify - should this be:a ) Radially - in a direction away/towards the axis of rotation (the disc centre), or b ) Circumferentially - in the direction of rotation (or against it)? If it's b, then only a little extra movement results in clonking whenever you apply the brakes. They move from their rest position at the trailing edge of the caliper slot to their loaded position at the leading edge (unless you're in reverse of course), fetching up with a clonk. So if you're filing the leading & trailing edge of the pad, then I'd do only a little at a time! As you said - a few strokes of the file, test, repeat. It may be that the sticky anti-squeal shims solve the clonking problem as well - anyone know? Cheers, John Edited May 23, 2007 by JohnC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richarddean9 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hi Richard,Please would you clarify - should this be:a ) Radially - in a direction away/towards the axis of rotation (the disc centre), or b ) Circumferentially - in the direction of rotation (or against it)? If it's b, then only a little extra movement results in clonking whenever you apply the brakes. They move from their rest position at the trailing edge of the caliper slot to their loaded position at the leading edge (unless you're in reverse of course), fetching up with a clonk. So if you're filing the leading & trailing edge of the pad, then I'd do only a little at a time! As you said - a few strokes of the file, test, repeat. It may be that the sticky anti-squeal shims solve the clonking problem as well - anyone know? Cheers, John Hi John Yes the direction is 'b' - circumuferential (the direction of rotation of the disc) Yes, its true if you remove too much metal from the edges of the backplates of the pads, you will get a clonk, when you apply the brakes, because the pad would try to rotate too much (the clonk being created when the moving pad is stopped from rotating by the fixed retaining pins) I discovered/experienced this type of clonk on my car, when I first got it and it was due to a warped/slightly out of true disc, which in turn had caused the retaining pin hole in the backplate, of the pads to wear thus allowing the pads to move too much New discs and standard pads cured the problem - the screech only occured after I had fitted the EBC greenstuff pads which were a tighter fit into the caliper than the standard pads, and a dimensional check across the seating faces of the pads confirmed this But to create a situation which ends up with a clonk on braking, you would need to remove at least 0.7 - 1.0mm of metal overall from both the top and bottom edges of the pad backplate and excessively oversize the cross holes When I said file the top and bottom edges of the backplate of the pads, it would be only enough so that the pads slide into the caliper easily, and in reality would be a case of removing of the paint film which is most probably only microns thick Hope this clarifies my previous e-mail, but like you said if the plastic sticky anti squeak shims are available try them - they weren't when I did mine Regards Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hi JohnYes the direction is 'b' - circumuferential (the direction of rotation of the disc) Yes, its true if you remove too much metal from the edges of the backplates of the pads, you will get a clonk, when you apply the brakes, because the pad would try to rotate too much (the clonk being created when the moving pad is stopped from rotating by the fixed retaining pins) I discovered/experienced this type of clonk on my car, when I first got it and it was due to a warped/slightly out of true disc, which in turn had caused the retaining pin hole in the backplate, of the pads to wear thus allowing the pads to move too much New discs and standard pads cured the problem - the screech only occured after I had fitted the EBC greenstuff pads which were a tighter fit into the caliper than the standard pads, and a dimensional check across the seating faces of the pads confirmed this But to create a situation which ends up with a clonk on braking, you would need to remove at least 0.7 - 1.0mm of metal overall from both the top and bottom edges of the pad backplate and excessively oversize the cross holes When I said file the top and bottom edges of the backplate of the pads, it would be only enough so that the pads slide into the caliper easily, and in reality would be a case of removing of the paint film which is most probably only microns thick Hope this clarifies my previous e-mail, but like you said if the plastic sticky anti squeak shims are available try them - they weren't when I did mine Regards Richard THANKS guys, sounds like I need to get filing so I can get some peace when I brake, will keep you informed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kyd99 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hi JohnYes the direction is 'b' - circumuferential (the direction of rotation of the disc) Yes, its true if you remove too much metal from the edges of the backplates of the pads, you will get a clonk, when you apply the brakes, because the pad would try to rotate too much (the clonk being created when the moving pad is stopped from rotating by the fixed retaining pins) I discovered/experienced this type of clonk on my car, when I first got it and it was due to a warped/slightly out of true disc, which in turn had caused the retaining pin hole in the backplate, of the pads to wear thus allowing the pads to move too much New discs and standard pads cured the problem - the screech only occured after I had fitted the EBC greenstuff pads which were a tighter fit into the caliper than the standard pads, and a dimensional check across the seating faces of the pads confirmed this But to create a situation which ends up with a clonk on braking, you would need to remove at least 0.7 - 1.0mm of metal overall from both the top and bottom edges of the pad backplate and excessively oversize the cross holes When I said file the top and bottom edges of the backplate of the pads, it would be only enough so that the pads slide into the caliper easily, and in reality would be a case of removing of the paint film which is most probably only microns thick Hope this clarifies my previous e-mail, but like you said if the plastic sticky anti squeak shims are available try them - they weren't when I did mine Regards Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kyd99 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 THANKS guys, sounds like I need to get filing so I can get some peace when I brake, will keep you informed Hi Folks I have fitted greenstuff pads and they are such a sloppy fit they rattle in the calipers. Most annoying on bumpy roads with the roof down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 (edited) Jeeezussssssssssus; this seems like anawfull lot of agro to go through for a set of disc pads! why not shun "the current fashion" & use originals; they work! Edited May 24, 2007 by Richard Crawley Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kyd99 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Jeeezussssssssssus; this seems like anawfull lot of agro to go through for a set of disc pads! why not shun "the current fashion" & use originals; they work! Hi Richard Fitted the origonal pads this afternoon, ( says Lucas on the backplate) no rattles and just as good as the EBC pads. Regards John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I'll be trying the Greenstuffs myself when I fire up CD8315L after its 2-1/2 year extreme makeover. All I know is they made a disconcerting scraping sound when turning the wheels by hand ( all new calipers/rotors etc. ) so I'm paying particular attention to this thread. For those who've had no satisfaction with Greenstuff I can heartily recommend the "semi-metallic" pads purveyed by TRF for some years now - no rattles, squeals, excessive wear or dusting, and about 25-30% less pedal effort required to effect the same braking as originals. If I get any trouble out of my new Greenstuffs I'll go straight back to them Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have tried greenstuff in my four pot cailpers and vented disc's and found them very wooden on application.I carefully run them in as per instructions.I changed to Mintex 1144 and the grip was so, so much better.Another mate found his not stopping at all.After removing his greenstuff pads he had found they were glazed over and soon sorted it by carefully sanding with emery paper.They now work. Regards Harry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I have tried greenstuff in my four pot cailpers and vented disc's and found them very wooden on application.I carefully run them in as per instructions.I changed to Mintex 1144 and the grip was so, so much better.Another mate found his not stopping at all.After removing his greenstuff pads he had found they were glazed over and soon sorted it by carefully sanding with emery paper.They now work.Regards Harry. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Enough, Ive had them out 4 times now and filed the edges, and now sanded the face of the pads. Do they still SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCHHHH. Absolutley had enough, back to standard for me I can face taking them out agin with no obvious progress. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jr.clarkson Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I put the Greenstuff in mine on the recommendation of Rimmers, took them out the same day, the noise was horrendous. Went back to the originals, the 'extra' braking wasn't worth the noise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jurgen's brother Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I put the Greenstuff in mine on the recommendation of Rimmers, took them out the same day, the noise was horrendous. Went back to the originals, the 'extra' braking wasn't worth the noise. Fitted Greenstuff pads and EBC Slotted and Drilled Discs in my TR6 and have ran them in as per instructions and have had no squealing or braking problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I put the Greenstuff in mine on the recommendation of Rimmers, took them out the same day, the noise was horrendous. Went back to the originals, the 'extra' braking wasn't worth the noise. Finally sorted. Remove the plastic shims provided with EBC pads and replace with metal ones which cover fromnt half of pads but not rear. Apparently this causes the piston to be at a slight angle eliminating screeching. In any event it works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 (edited) Finally sorted. Remove the plastic shims provided with EBC pads and replace with metal ones which cover fromnt half of pads but not rear. Apparently this causes the piston to be at a slight angle eliminating screeching. In any event it works. Interesting this! I have cross posted this from the TR4 forum in the hope it might help somebody. I have been plagued with front brake squeal ever since rebuilding my car 6 years ago, and despite trying different brake pads, soft backing pads, anti squeal shims, copperslip, etc, I have not been able to get rid of it, but did reduce it by using Mintex 1144 pads which, IMHO, are far better that greenstuff. Today, I went to replace the pads and I noticed that on the offside, the two pads had worn at a slight angle. This I assumed was because the caliper was sitting at an angle to the disc. After some investigation I noticed that the caliper mounting lugs had been powder coated and I wondered if that was the problem. I cleaned the coating off the lugs and fitted the caliper back on and put new pads in. Been for a test drive and guess what, totally silent brakes, Result!! Hope this may help others who have squeaky brakes. Graeme. Edited June 16, 2007 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robgeev Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have Greenstuff pads on my 4 with original discs and no shims- no noise, fine. On the 6 they also run on EBC grooved discs, yet again no shims (I found them in the box after finishing the job!) perfect, and a huge increase in brake performance (they were poor before mind you). Essentially I would be checking for other causes like the post above, and not instantly blaming the pads, commercially, we always advise new discs at the same time as pads if we can see the braking surface is not perfectly flat. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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