Neil Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The latest in a long, sequential, stream of annoying little problems is already upon me. starter motor ... On sunday, out of the blue, it can only manage to turn the engine over about 1 rev. It sounds like the proverbial old man croaking. I read the recent post from Menno and that seemed to describe exactly my problem, I tried most of that - have redone all connections, earth strap is fine, battery is fine, solenoid operates, wires get warm (seem to remeber that they got warm before anyway). The solenoid seems to work fine, i.e pressing the switch at the back closes the contacts and gets power to the starter. But I read that this alone may not eliminate the solenoid. I looked to take it apart, but it seems a sealed unit. Any other way to test? I went to the TR shop today for something else and asked their advice. The seemed certain it wouldn't be the solenoid and I bought some brushes for the the starter (v.cheap) and i'm hoping it's just that. so now I need to get it out. I saw the suggestion that it can be wangled out through the bottom, can't see how that's possible. Most obvious seems route seems to be carbs and manifolds off and bring it out upwards. Its the early bomb type one, so its longer than the later ones. Has anyone done this recently and can recommend the best method? Many thanks Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Neil I have done this once on a friends car, it was on a lift so could get underneath but still had to unbolt the exaust where it meets the manifold and push it out of the way to get the thing out. Dont forget to disconnect/remove the battery before you start. It is a knuckle busting exercise. Cheers Alan Edited March 28, 2007 by Kiwifrog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Hi Neil The 'bomb' starter can be removed downwards, but as Alan says, you may have to loosen the exhaust and lever it over to make more room. It's like doing one of those Chinese puzzles, you keep trying different positions until it comes out. A few years ago my starter gave all the symptoms of having a flat battery. Even with jump-leads from a good battery it would hardly get the engine over compression. The culprit turned out to be the rubber shock drive inside the starter which had perished and sheared. This allowed the starter motor to turn but without turning the engine. Fairly easy to replace though. Good luck Les Edited March 30, 2007 by Les Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Neil, I hope there is room for it to come out somewhere on the TR3/A. I had to do it on the TR4A and found I had to take the steering out, it wouldn't come out upwards otherwise. After I did that I realised that I was dismantling it and had to keep going. Currently cutting out rusty bits of chassis and welding new homemade bits in. Hope you don't have to go down that path. I estimate I won't be able to try out my refurbished starter for a few years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 We are lucky here in North America where the steering is on the other side. It's a simple matter in our case to remove Carb #2 and pull the starter right up through the top. Do you think the design engineers at S-T had our market in mind? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Don, I'm sure if that was the case #2 carby would have been welded on to make it equally awkward. I've also discovered other areas where if you have a black belt in yoga you can get a spanner on to the nut, but there is no room left to turn it, or if there is, there's no room for a hand to get to the spanner. Suspect the designers thought we all should have some challenging puzzles to mull over on the long winter evenings. Doesn't pan out properly over here because it is harder to tell when it is winter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Smith Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Neil, Many, many years ago I removed the bomb starter on my 3A by first removing the RH Horn! Disconnect battery, Starter motor bolts, feed the starter forward past the downpipe, past the dynamo, towards the radiator. When past the horn mounting rotate 90 degrees then up then 90 degrees again, withdraw through the space occupied by Horn. I know it sounds complicated but it is possible with patience. It is so long ago that I can't remember if i removed the front air cleaner or not. My car was in those days standard with a single downpipe & H6 carbs. Hope that helps Bobby Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I have done this job many times and the simple way is to loosen any exhaust fixing at the cruciform and disconnect the downpipe from the manifold. The starter then comes out from underneath without upsetting the carbs. The best trick is to replace this bomb with a new high torque starter which works for ever and a day. They spin the engine and use less current. Thet fit in and out without having to undo the exhaust. My starter cost a fortune in rebuilds over the years and I put a stop to the whole affair with a new one from Cambridge motorsport. Since then I have never touched it again. Goodbye bomb Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neil Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Many Thanks for all the helpful suggestions It came out through of the bottom without too much trouble in the end. Didn't even have to loosen the exahust either. brushes look fine. The drive end bush has perished & disappeared, consequently the shaft to wobbles a bit. Les, is this part that you referred too? (moss page 152, no.60) Moss unfortunatley list them as 'no longer available'. Richard, I'll work on my better half about fitting a modern starter. She's an originality freak and won't hear of it at the moment! Cheers Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 You can buy one at any bearing supply shop for pennies. Almost any machine shop will have oil-lite bushings and will turn it for you to fit if they don't have the exact same size. I bought a stardard one that was larger at a bearing supply shop and a friend with a lathe turned it to size for me. I had him make it like a top-hat bushing so now it also takes the end thrust. The flange of the "brim" of the top-hat is about 1/16" thick. It'll be a lot cheaper to replace the bushing and it will keep you starter original and your lady happy. Isn't that what life is all about? Careful if you do decide to spend all that money on a new modern starter.. Early sidescreen TRs had the starter where the pinion gets thrown forward and later TR3As and TR4s have the starter that pulls in to start. I heard that the new starters only fit the later cars where it pulls forward. I believe the interference has something to do with the chamfer on the ring gear on the flywheel being on the other side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neil Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Don, do you know what material the bush is made from? you say oil-lite, I'm not sure what that is? This is also a good excuse to buy a nice little metal working lathe ..... The TRShop confirmed that the modern starters repalce both the early and the later type starters. (I'm not sure if theer are two slightly different ones, or it is somehow 'uiniversal') Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 These bushings are not made from solid bronze. They are made from bronze that is porous. Possibly made using "powder technology" ? Then they are soaked in oil so that the pores in the bushing become filled with the oil. They may also be called "permanently oiled bronze bushings". By having the oil in the pores, they are supposed to last much longer. But you still have to add oil periodically. The bushings in the generator and the pilot bushing in the back end of the crankshaft, behind the flywheel (to supprt the front end of the input shaft for the gearbox) are other locations where these oil-lite bushings are found.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) Many Thanks for all the helpful suggestions Les, is this part that you referred too? (moss page 152, no.60) Moss unfortunatley list them as 'no longer available'. No Neil, the part I had to replace is on the same page, item 57, part number 501217. This is basically a steel tube inner and outer with moulded rubber between. This cushions the shock of the starter motor when the bendix throws in, and starts to turn the engine. This rubber eventually breaks down due to the inevitable soaking of oil it gets over the years, allowing the starter to turn slowly but without revolving the engine. The part is easily available. Got mine from "Parts 4" at Oldbury, West Midlands, and cheaper than Moss. Les Edited April 1, 2007 by Les Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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