Steve-B Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 (edited) For those with Netflix, have a watch of the disturbing background of toxicity in Boeing called "Downfall: the case against Boeing" for a shocking view of them. Now nuts and bolts found loose on this travesty of a plane! See https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/01/08/boeing-737-max-inspections-begin/ (you might need to install bypass-paywalls-clean in your browser) Edited January 9 by Steve-B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Let us think this through. Boeing need to get their quality sorted as the only other worldwide credible aircraft maker is Airbus in the domestic market. A bit of competition is useful plus they are currently too small to supply the world demand alone. Do we feel cosy about the Comac C919 or the Irkut MC21 taking more dominant positions in the airline world? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 As I mentioned in an earlier post all was well through the 80's and into the 90's. Then the management style changed, the work force were alienated and the bean counters took over. The wrong way to run a massive operation. A similar thing happened at BA through the same period and BA (engineering) are now struggling to find enough staff. Qualified engineers do not grow on trees. They take tine to train and gain experience. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Beta-testing at 37000 feet.................. first the software, now nuts and bolts. next: carbon fibre fails ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Already got that Peter - potential failure of CF engine pods due to de-icing equipment, on all 737Max models. Boeing is asking the FAA to waive certification requirements on new models while they work on a fix. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 The B777 also had serious problems with its CF engine nacelles. Required constant NDT inspections to keep it flying. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Thé plug is held in by 4 bolts and during inspection Alaska and United have found a number of incorrectly tightened bolts on their fleets https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/united-finds-loose-bolts-on-door-plug-when-inspecting-its-max-9s/ the door on my TR3 has more bolts holding it on and it’s smaller and flies at about 2 feet not 40 000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, Kiwifrog said: my TR3 has more bolts holding it on and it’s smaller and flies at about 2 feet not 40 000 One hopes there are fewer passengers too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 Here is a good commentary on the issue. https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/guide-roller-fittings-on-alaska-max-9-door-plug-are-fractured-ntsb/156407.article Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve-B Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 (edited) “Unsafe at any altitude” seems to be the motto for the B-737Max Edited January 9 by Steve-B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 4 hours ago, Steve-B said: “Unsafe at any altitude” seems to be the motto for the B-737Max I guess Ralph Nader has passed away. Good read that original book about the safety or lack of, in US motor cars and others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 12 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: I guess Ralph Nader has passed away. Good read that original book about the safety or lack of, in US motor cars and others. Still alive aged 89 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Seems apt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 You may also want to look at the KC-46A Pegasus tanker made by Boeing for the US military, recent deliveries have been rejected due to debris in the wings and fuel tanks. I believe the debris is nuts, bolts, cleaing cloths and tools. Possibly indicates that there is a general malaise across Boeing workforce, or more likely their subcontractors Spirit AeroSystems. Manufacturing defects are one thing but engineers leaving tools and components behind is unforgivable, they must know they have mislaid tools. Reminds me of the surgical procedures of old when forceps and swabs were found to have been left in incisions. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 40 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said: You may also want to look at the KC-46A Pegasus tanker made by Boeing for the US military, recent deliveries have been rejected due to debris in the wings and fuel tanks. I believe the debris is nuts, bolts, cleaing cloths and tools. Possibly indicates that there is a general malaise across Boeing workforce, or more likely their subcontractors Spirit AeroSystems. Manufacturing defects are one thing but engineers leaving tools and components behind is unforgivable, they must know they have mislaid tools. Reminds me of the surgical procedures of old when forceps and swabs were found to have been left in incisions. Alan One of my favourite 1/4-5/16 af ‘Plumb’ double ended ring spanners came from under the freight bay floor of a B707 that had been recently overhauled in the far east. Top tip from a friend who worked on sea planes was to tie your tools to your wrist with string. Long and soggy way down to collect if dropped otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Very interesting in-depth analysis: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10 Author Report Share Posted January 10 That is good information Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 Blimey! You can see the loose bolts in the pictures! Spring washer not even part compressed. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 Looks like someone has found a solution Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 Nothing says 'bad workmanship" like wrinkles in duct-tape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve-B Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 "Boeing CEO bizarrely calls Alaska Airlines plane door blowout a ‘quality escape’" -- you just cannot make up their mistruths! Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/americas/boeing-alaska-airlines-door-plug-b2477311.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 Hi Steve, sadly these softer terms 'Quality escape' instead of 'right old cock up' is more appealing to the general public. And they get Away with it. Before PanAm went under they were making heavy losses. These were published as Negative profits - so much more positive. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 13 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Steve, sadly these softer terms 'Quality escape' instead of 'right old cock up' is more appealing to the general public. And they get Away with it. Before PanAm went under they were making heavy losses. These were published as Negative profits - so much more positive. Roger I still chuckle at the term “premature ground impingement “. It crashed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 In the mid 60' BEA teamed up with Smiths Industries to develope the 'auto land' system that everybody uses today. It was so precise that the TRident aircraft (DH121) had to land apprx 6ft below the runway surface to ensure it actually sat on the ground It was referred to as a controlled crash. Given time and testing they refined it somewhat I had visions of the airfield congested with TRident's hovering around until they ran out of fuel. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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