Loose starter motor

[monty]

High torque starter motor has recently started to sound a bit odd & rather noisy on using. Today after a run it finally failed to start. I have just noticed that both retaining bolts are very loose & the unit can be rocked by hand. Is it hopeful that just the 2 bolts need retightening or could something have been damaged when starting the engine as the bolts were getting looser? Now need a tow to my local garage as the bolts, especially the top one, look very inaccessible without a hoist.

[monty]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:17 PM, monty said:

High torque starter motor has recently started to sound a bit odd & rather noisy on using. Today after a run it finally failed to start. I have just noticed that both retaining bolts are very loose & the unit can be rocked by hand. Is it hopeful that just the 2 bolts need retightening or could something have been damaged when starting the engine as the bolts were getting looser? Now need a tow to my local garage as the bolts, especially the top one, look very inaccessible without a hoist.

No comments?

[Hamish]

Have a look at the starters pinion cog for damage.  And peer into the hole at the flywheel ring turning the engine with plugs out. If it’s ok  just refit with good new nyloc so it doesn’t come loose again. 

[monty]

7 hours ago, Hamish said:

Have a look at the starters pinion cog for damage.  And peer into the hole at the flywheel ring turning the engine with plugs out. If it’s ok  just refit with good new nyloc so it doesn’t come loose again. 

Thanks for that Hamish. Cannot get the car on to a ramp until next week so worry has crept in! Is it more likely than not that damage may have occurred to the pinion cog or flywheel ring?

[james christie]

The starter motor operates in a pretty tough environment and the business parts last nearly for ever. As you say that both bolts are only loose and still in place, the alignment has been more or less maintained. I would thus take an optimistic outlook. But do have a very good look as suggested above.

Yes, on my 3A, the top nut is a pain to get at, even when on a hoist, but it can be done from behind with a wobbly and an extension - without a hoist. A jack and axle stands suffice.

I fail to understand why the manufacturers of these gizmos all seem to insist on fitting a fixed stud/bolt on the top as it is impossible to turn a spanner on the nut behind the bell housing.

I have a Powerlite and with their agreement, turned the adaptor plate through 180° so that the ‘loose’ bolt is on the top and is easily turned while the nut can be held with a spanner as per the Joe Lucas item. The nut on the fixed stud, now below, is easy to get at, again without a hoist

But you will have to get it out to do this worthwhile modification!

Good luck

james

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by james christie

[Hamish]

3 hours ago, james christie said:

I have a Powerlite and with their agreement, turned the adaptor plate through 180° so that the ‘loose’ bolt is on the top and is easily turned while the nut can be held with a spanner as per the Joe Lucas item. The nut on the fixed stud, now below, is easy to get at, again without a hoist

But you will have to get it out to do this worthwhile modification!

Good luck

james

 

 

I did the same and makes life a lot easier just rotating the fitting ring on the starter so fixed bolt at the bottom. I had to take the carbs off to get the starter out tho. 
 

the pinion cog and starter ring are very robust. 
good nyloc nuts will stop it loosening off again. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Hamish

[Lebro]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but as I have a later gearbox (T2000) by engine is a little further forward than normal, & I can get a spanner behind the bell housing flange from the engine bay (just).

Bob

[james christie]

1 minute ago, Lebro said:

can get a spanner behind the bell housing flange from the engine bay (just).

Yes so can I, if the flats are in the right orientation, but I can’t turn it!

james 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Tools used to tighten from the engine bay side pictured   A ring or open crows foot 9/16” af   Operated by a short extension and knuckle bar  

 

[monty]

22 hours ago, james christie said:

The starter motor operates in a pretty tough environment and the business parts last nearly for ever. As you say that both bolts are only loose and still in place, the alignment has been more or less maintained. I would thus take an optimistic outlook. But do have a very good look as suggested above.

Yes, on my 3A, the top nut is a pain to get at, even when on a hoist, but it can be done from behind with a wobbly and an extension - without a hoist. A jack and axle stands suffice.

I fail to understand why the manufacturers of these gizmos all seem to insist on fitting a fixed stud/bolt on the top as it is impossible to turn a spanner on the nut behind the bell housing.

I have a Powerlite and with their agreement, turned the adaptor plate through 180° so that the ‘loose’ bolt is on the top and is easily turned while the nut can be held with a spanner as per the Joe Lucas item. The nut on the fixed stud, now below, is easy to get at, again without a hoist

But you will have to get it out to do this worthwhile modification!

Good luck

james

 

 

Thanks for that tip James. What is involved in changing that adaptor through 180 on the Powerlite after removal?

[james christie]

Not a lot - 5 minutes on the bench/kitchen table. Just make sure you retighten everything up nice and tight!

The carburettors will have to come off though, alas

james

[badhuis]

Two weeks ago I removed and re-installed the starter motor on my TR4. I found I could *just* manage to push a flat spanner (open ended) onto the nut. The bolt is fairly easily reached with a socket and long extension bar. I found it easier to unscrew the bottom bolt from above. 
No removal of carburettor(s) was needed.

Removal of my starter motor was necessary as one of the four springs pushing the carbon brushes onto the axle was broken. I had a scrap starter so it was an easy repair. 

I put a jack under the RH main chassis rail, and supported this with two jack stands. Interestingly I could then not open the LH door. After refitting the starter and lowering the car everything is fine again 

 

[monty]

1 hour ago, james christie said:

Not a lot - 5 minutes on the bench/kitchen table. Just make sure you retighten everything up nice and tight!

The carburettors will have to come off though, alas

james

On my 4A it looks more likely that the starter motor will foul the exhaust manifold rather than the carbs (maybe the air cleaners may need removal though). Are you referring to a TR3 James?

[james christie]

Yes my 3A - I’m totally ignorant of anything more modern.

I tried to take a photo of the starter motor and this awkward nut, this evening but access isn’t easy…..

I have a four branch manifold fitted and manage to get it out, after removing carbus.

james

[roy53]

4 hours ago, badhuis said:

Two weeks ago I removed and re-installed the starter motor on my TR4. I found I could *just* manage to push a flat spanner (open ended) onto the nut. The bolt is fairly easily reached with a socket and long extension bar. I found it easier to unscrew the bottom bolt from above. 
No removal of carburettor(s) was needed.

Removal of my starter motor was necessary as one of the four springs pushing the carbon brushes onto the axle was broken. I had a scrap starter so it was an easy repair. 

I put a jack under the RH main chassis rail, and supported this with two jack stands. Interestingly I could then not open the LH door. After refitting the starter and lowering the car everything is fine again 

 

At the Holland 50 weekend Ton from the dutch group changed my starter exactly that way. I was starting to remove the carbs when he said no need and then set about fitting it.

Also a 6 had its starter changed the next day.  had to remove the plenham.

Roy

[monty]

10 hours ago, roy53 said:

At the Holland 50 weekend Ton from the dutch group changed my starter exactly that way. I was starting to remove the carbs when he said no need and then set about fitting it.

Also a 6 had its starter changed the next day.  had to remove the plenham.

Roy

Roy, was it removed from underneath of the engine compartment or up from the inside past the carbs with enough clearance from the exhaust manifold?

[roy53]

upwards and yes.

But thinking mine is LHD so no column