Problems starting up a V8 after a few months sitting.

[keith w]

I stopped working on my Grinnall restoration in October when the weather turned cold and I ran into some health problems and didn't feel much like tiddling around with it. I've only just rolled it out and tried to start it today and it's not playing at all. It was running quite well when I put it away, timing was good, carb was good with fuel just dribbling out of the sight plugs with engine running and I was reducing the idle speed when warm. I knew the idle and the accelerator pump needed further adjustment because I could see a trickle of fuel going into the barrells at idle suggesting the fuel pump was mis-adjusted. First job therefore, I set up the accelerator pump according to Holley's instructions on YouTube. (it's a four barrell on an Edelbrock manifold) put some new fuel in and tried to start her up. The best I've got is a splutter and a bit of a puff back through the carb.

There's plenty of fuel getting to the carb, and it flows out of the sight plugs with the engine not running. The fuel pump sounds good. I assume there's a spark because of the huffing as if it's trying. I disconnected the king lead and turned it over to get some oil pressure before attempting to start it so I know what totally no spark behaves like.

 

Any suggestions anybody please?

 

 

[keith w]

I went back to fundamentals with this checking the spark into the distributor and then out onto a couple of plugs, then checked fuel going into carb from fuel pump by hanging the pipe into a container. So far so good. Then I decided to set the carb back to the basic recommended settings by winding the mixture screws in completely and then back out 1.5 turns. Because there was fuel coming out of the float chamber sight holes with the engine not running I backed both off a quarter turn too. Boom! She fired up first time. I'll wait until the neighbours are out now before doing a vacuum gauge tune. The single pipe system is LOUD! It might even be anti-social but I'll reserve judgement until I've got it going smoothly.

[keith w]

So I came back to it and it will not start. I'm convinced it's a carb issue. After much fiddling yesterday and with petrol all over the place I gave up and will have another go today, starting with the float chambers. If I can't get it going today I will seriously consider replacing the carb with something else. It's a Holley 390 on an Edelbrock manifold btw.

I also have problems with fibre washers disintegrating. The ones at the needle adjustment screws on top of the float chambers. I've got a query out with Woolfe racing to see if they can help. I'm concerned the rebuild kit I bought was old stock and therefore pre E10. It's a genuine Holley Trick-Kit.

It's so frustrating being close to the end of a restoration and not being able to crack this one.

 

 

[Stagpowered]

Have you still got the original electric choke?

I had no end of problems with it on a Holley 390,   particularly frustrating was the choke flap blowing backwards and going over centre on its linkage if the engine spat back through the carb when cold. I then had to remove the air filter to poke it back the right way.

It didn't do that many times before it ended up in the bin. I found 2 pumps of the throttle started it every time.

The fuel level only needs to be up to the threads of the plugs, not running out. Fibre washers disintegrating was a problem 30 years ago, looks like they have not solved it.

Also check that the carb is not actually flooding due to **** getting stuck on the seat of the needle valves, I had this happen quite often as I only had a pre pump filter and I found the Facet pump I was using would regularly shed bits of rubber from its non return valve.

Neil

[Peter Cobbold]

How old is the petrol?

 

[keith w]

Thanks for the responses gents.

 

The fuel is fresh Peter.

Neil, hi, it doesn't have an electric choke just manual.

I been beggaring about with it again today with no success. I ended the day with it sounding as if it wanted to run but it wasn't firing, just 'huffing' through the carb a bit.

When you say fuel up to the threads, is that on a running engine or no? I suspect this is my problem, I've got the floats set much too high.

I tried making some washers out of nitrile rubber and nitrile bonded cork. They sort-of work but are pretty much a one-shot use. Not much good if you are trying to adjust the 

[Phil Read]

Get a can of easy start and spray into carb (not much) or put some petrol in a spray can and spray down the carb choke. If it fires up thats your problem, if not look elsewhere.

[keith w]

I'm having to address this when time allows, hence the intermittent posts. The next problem I have, preventing me from going forward, is as I've said earlier that the fibre washers on the Holley fuel valve assembly have split meaning fuel pours out on top of the fuel bowls. These are the two which seal the float adjusting nut and the locking nut on top of the fuel bowl. Does anyone know what material these are made of and where I can buy some replacements? I've been in touch with some UK suppliers without success. They only appear to stock full rebuild kits.

I've tried making my own. Nitrile rubber distorts too much. Bonded cork sort-of works as a single use. I can't get Dowty washers thin enough (0.5mm)

 Holley themselves have identified the part numbers - 

Part Number 1008-776.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/floats_fuel_bowls_and_components/needle_and_seats/parts/1008-776

but haven't said if they'll post to the UK. (It takes about three days each way for customer service e-mail. There must be a delay in the speed of light across the Atlantic).

Edited August 25, 2023 by keith w
Added more information

[Hamish]

Would any of these fit ?

https://www.greasemonkeydirect.com/collections/fibre-washers
 

Or perhaps search for a Weber equivalent?

https://classiccarbs.co.uk/product/weber-dcoedcospdcom-twin-carbs-fuel-union-inner-fibre-seal/

[Deggers]

9 hours ago, keith w said:

I've been in touch with some UK suppliers without success. They only appear to stock full rebuild kits.

Hi Keith, have you tried the team at Serck Motorsport in Hayes?

They hold a large stock of Holley carb parts, including needle and seat gaskets : Part no. 1008-776

Link here : https://www.serckmotorsport.co.uk/product/holley-needle-seat-gaskets/

Deggers

[keith w]

Thanks Hamish and Deggers. That gives me some more options.

[BusheyTrader]

Hi Keith,

Have you tried Real Steel in Uxbridge for Holley parts? They have a comprehensive stock of American 4 barrel carbs and parts. http://www.realsteel.co.uk/section6.pdf
 

This is a really good website for setting up a Holley.  http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm   Bob comes across as a grumpy bloke but it’s methodology worked for me when rebuilding my Holley more than once. 

I converted my 7 to TR8 spec back in the early 90’s with a low mileage V8 and older Holley 390 on top.  I’ve replaced the parts that wear out or disintegrate over time including gaskets, those float bowl fibre washers, float bowl valves, power valve, accelerator pump diaphragm and complete base plate assembly.  (One rough running problem I had wasn’t due to the Holley,  it was the distributor vacuum diaphragm which had lost its flexibility with age even though it wasn’t leaking)  Once I’ve set up the Holley correctly it doesn’t fall out of tune unless something has worn out.  It's over 35 years old now.

As per Bob, the proper level of fuel is for it to just lick the bottom of the sight hole without running out whilst the engine is idling.  Adjusting the float bowl height can be messy.

Grinnall fitted Holley to many of his conversions so your Holley could be 30 years old or more as well.  You may need the whole rebuild kit or just the parts to rejuvenate the float bowls.  Have you done any work on it apart from adjust the float bowls?

Edited September 17, 2023 by BusheyTrader
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[keith w]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Every suggestion helps. As I say, I have to address this as time allows. I followed up on the suggestions from Hamish and Deggars but GreaseMonkey have a minimum order of £50, Classic Carbs didn't seem to have anything suitable and Serck just didn't reply to my email. Meanwhile with further trawling of the web I found some suitable nylon washers (from two different suppliers but never mind). I fitted these on Monday and they appear to be holding against the fuel pump pressure. I'm in the process of rearranging the garage as the current Mrs W wanted better access to the freezer (and I wanted some deeper shelving but I didn't tell her that) so once that's done I'll spend some time trying to get this thing going again. I find that having had a break from it, the determination comes back. I refuse to be beaten by this. Thanks to Bushey Trader for sharing his experiences. The Distributor diaphragm is something I haven't been near in the rebuild. I have done a complete rebuild of the carb using a genuine Holley rebuild kit and I had it running quite nicely almost a year ago when circumstances forced me to take an extended break. Thinking about it, I had it running without the breather setup in place so I'll retrace my steps by taking that off again. I'd added a little K&N filter to the rocker cover and piped the other to an oil catch tank and on to the large vacuum port on top of the Edelbrock manifold which was previously blanked off.

BTW - Real Steel have the most comprehensive catalogue including small parts. I shall be going there if my '£3 for 6' nylon washers  fail me.

Edited September 21, 2023 by keith w

[BusheyTrader]

“Thinking about it, I had it running without the breather setup in place so I'll retrace my steps by taking that off again. I'd added a little K&N filter to the rocker cover and piped the other to an oil catch tank and on to the large vacuum port on top of the Edelbrock manifold which was previously blanked off.”
 

I think you may have the issue there, but there’s no photo to refer to. I’d blank off that vacuum port and see if this corrects things. I tried mine once with one of the rocker cover breather pipes connected to the vacuum port on the Holley without a PCV fitted.  It would hardly Rev past idle.

The rocker covers on my V8 both have a single 13mm (1/2”) vent pipe.  Separate breather hoses, with fire traps, connect these to the underside of the air filter.  (My 17D prefix engine also has a small bore brass vent pipe at the rear of the driver side cylinder head, which vents to air through a fuel filter as recommended by a V8 Land Rover specialist many years ago). The only vacuum connection on my JWR Offenhauser dual port manifold, or the Holley carb, is the one that connects to the brake servo, no others.  

Edited September 23, 2023 by BusheyTrader
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