Bespoke TR6 catch can

[Z320]

19 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

As I've pointed out above, designing the whole system, rather than just the catch tank, should allow oil vapour to condense before it gets to the tank, to run back into the sump.

If necessary, solid finned tube  is available, or else  flexible fins that can be pushed over rubber hose.    The trick would be to choose the extent of the cooling fin so that water vapour stayed to reach the catch tank. 

John

+1

I‘m very pleased with the original construction on my TR4A: the PCV valve!

It is a vacuum reduction valve AND an oil separator AND flame trap.

It sucks the vapours out from the rocker cover (the „shield in there is the first separator) with a constant low vacuum,

condenses the oil and - correctly installed slightly forward - guides all oil back to the rocker cover.

The hose from the PCV valve to the inlet manifold on my TR4A is always clean and dry.

A very simple and effective part.

Sadly the PCV has a poor reputation because most drivers do not understand how it works and complain about the oil in there.

Mostly I‘m told „it is a stupid relief valve“. This it is not at all.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Z320

[BaulyCars]

Thanks, Kiwi, you're right it must be practical, cost-effective and look right. 

The original idea was to combine a few aspects in a new tank design that didn't appear together in any one of the current solutions: 

Two inlets with the right orientations (one from crankcase, one from rocker cover), and one outlet to down and out of the car (not venting into the engine bay).

A tank with internal perforated baffle plate(s) and correct internal configuration of pipes (as per any good catch tank, but custom made here to the size/length of the tank - 3L size compliant also). 

A tank fabricated in aluminium for both robustness but also to work cosmetically in the engine bay - spec is 2.0mm thk (not thin-wall sheet metal) and grade 5052 for best corrosion resistance (improved over the typical 6061). 

The tank must 'look right' in the engine bay (if it looks ugly/odd I wouldn't want it in my own car either...). 

We will also be providing a fuel-pump-blanking plate with the spigot welded on at the ideal orientation, plus a rubber hose in a pre-formed shape to navigate neatly around the engine bay up to tank - so as much a 'ready made' and neat solution as possible. 

The tank itself is still 'just an oil catch tank', as simple as any other tank, just custom made to integrate nicely in the engine bay with whats there, and be pleasant to the eye. 

Cost wise, it cannot be disproportionate to what's available, or again the design isn't right.

[Jonny TR6]

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[Jonny TR6]

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[Jonny TR6]

5 hours ago, KiwiTR6 said:

I hate to be a party pooper, but that thing looks more like a sewage pumping station (minus the pumps) than an oil catch tank.  I really can't see what's so clever about it, nor how "very much in keeping with the style of the TR6" it is (really?).  There are far more practical and cheaper options available to owners. 

There’s nothing clever about any oil catch tank, it’s just a means of condensing oily vapour. If you look at a lot of the internals for any correctly design tank they all work in pretty much the same way, and this is no different - aside from optimising the space next to the battery, maximising the efficiency as much as possible and bespoking it for the TR6.

As for the aesthetics, it’s similar in style (alloy construction) to the alloy fuel tanks and radiators which many people run without them affecting the car’s style, but I appreciate there are the purists out there who stick with original fuel pumps, non ethanol fuel hose etc to maintain originality.

 

[Jonny TR6]

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[BaulyCars]

43 minutes ago, Z320 said:

+1

I‘m very pleased with the original construction on my TR4A: the PCV valve!

It is a vacuum reduction valve AND an oil separator AND flame trap.

It sucks the vapours out from the rocker cover (the „shield in there is the first separator) with a constant low vacuum,

condenses the oil and - correctly installed slightly forward - guides all oil back to the rocker cover.

The hose from the PCV valve to the inlet manifold on my TR4A is always clean and dry.

A very simple and effective part.

Sadly the PCV has a poor reputation because most drivers do not understand how it works and complain about the oil in there.

Mostly I‘m told „it is a stupid over pressure valve“. This it is not at all.

Ciao, Marco 

You could try a PCV on a TR6 (don't think they were fitted on the 6 originally?).

The tank just avoids needing to route anything back to the intake side.

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by BaulyCars

[Jonny TR6]

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[BaulyCars]

19 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

As I've pointed out above, designing the whole system, rather than just the catch tank, should allow oil vapour to condense before it gets to the tank, to run back into the sump.

If necessary, solid finned tube  is available, or else  flexible fins that can be pushed over rubber hose.    The trick would be to choose the extent of the cooling fin so that water vapour stayed to reach the catch tank. 

John

 

Agree, John, where much of the condensing can take place in the length of rubber hose before it reaches the tank, then all the better.

Cheers

Toby  

[Z320]

47 minutes ago, BaulyCars said:

You could try a PCV on a TR6 (don't think they were fitted on the 6 originally?).

The tank just avoids needing to route anything back to the intake side.

 

Sorry, you do not understand my expanation how the PCV valve works.

The hose to the inlet manifold is needed to make it ACTIV work.

An oil catch tank IMHO is only bling-bling and for the good feeling of the owner „to improved“ something.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Z320

[BaulyCars]

1 minute ago, Z320 said:

The hose to the inlet manifold is needed for making the PCV valve ACTIV work.

An oil catch tank IMHO is only bling-bling and for the good feeling of the owner „to improved“ something.

Yeah that's certainly the debate that will always continue on oil catch cans - you find it on every car owner forum...!   

The point is that if a TR owner believes their car would benefit from a catch tank then there is something available that is as good as it can be - and look nice too.

[john.r.davies]

This will affect only a small number, but a catch tank is required for competition vehicles.

Section Q 19.9.2.

For circuit racing, at least 2L for cars under 2L capacity, 3L if more.  Other disciplines 1L only.

JOhn

[Jonny TR6]

3 hours ago, Z320 said:

Sorry, you do not understand my expanation how the PCV valve works.

The hose to the inlet manifold is needed to make it ACTIV work.

An oil catch tank IMHO is only bling-bling and for the good feeling of the owner „to improved“ something.

I want one so the oily vapours don’t go into the plenum. They can’t or shouldn’t vent direct to atmosphere if you want to have a clean air supply.

[Z320]

1 hour ago, Jonny TR6 said:

I want one so the oily vapours don’t go into the plenum. They can’t or shouldn’t vent direct to atmosphere if you want to have a clean air supply.

You did not understand what I explained: the PCV valve seperates all oil frim the vapours.

Tell me any car which has a catch tank from new, please.

While a PCV valve or something similar is standard on any petrol and Diesel car.

[Z320]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

This will affect only a small number, but a catch tank is required for competition vehicles.

Section Q 19.9.2.

For circuit racing, at least 2L for cars under 2L capacity, 3L if more.  Other disciplines 1L only.

JOhn

This may make sense for any reason, perhaps someone can explain.

Most likely they don’t want oil vented directly out on the race track, like all TR2-4 do.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Z320

[BaulyCars]

7 minutes ago, Z320 said:

You did not understand what I explained: the PCV valve seperates all oil frim the vapours.

Tell me any car which has a catch tank from new, please.

While a PCV valve or something similar is standard on any petrol and Diesel car.

They aren't fitted from new as that would mean a manufacturer venting to atmosphere (not allowed). 

Hence the PCV valve design is always closed loop back to the intake.

PCV's work fine (like yours), but not always. 

 

[Tom Fremont]

The original SMITHS PCV valve has served my driver for 135,000+ miles and has had its diaphragm replaced once in those 27 years. 

Thanks to the CANNON manifold its effluent is inhaled by all (6) cylinders, burnt or simply passed through the exhaust, lubricating valve stems on the way in. The head has 105,000 miles on it so far and performs exactly as it did when first fitted, no valve adjustments for the last 50,000 miles or so ( bronze bushed rockers and auxiliary oil feed applied ) and best of all, no stench in the engine bay. I do add SEAFOAM to the fuel in the amount of 1 cup per tank; this certainly helps keep things clean.

The same system is fitted to my concourse engine. In both cases a few brass adapters and pipe are needed. 

KISS principle in action  

[BaulyCars]

Thanks, Tom, lovely set-up!

 

[Z320]

Hi Tom,

great to see at least one TR6 owner also knows the benefit of the PCV valve.

Ciao, Marco 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Whaat a fine manifold Tom.

[KiwiTR6]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:24 PM, Z320 said:

+1

I‘m very pleased with the original construction on my TR4A: the PCV valve!

It is a vacuum reduction valve AND an oil separator AND flame trap.

It sucks the vapours out from the rocker cover (the „shield in there is the first separator) with a constant low vacuum,

condenses the oil and - correctly installed slightly forward - guides all oil back to the rocker cover.

The hose from the PCV valve to the inlet manifold on my TR4A is always clean and dry.

A very simple and effective part.

Sadly the PCV has a poor reputation because most drivers do not understand how it works and complain about the oil in there.

Mostly I‘m told „it is a stupid relief valve“. This it is not at all.

Ciao, Marco 

Hi Marco.

I'm running my rocker cover vent out through a small filter which works fine, but I'm intrigued by the PCV valve which looks to only have been fitted to the carb'd models.  Can you explain to me how it works exactly and could I fit one to my 73 PI?  Bare in mind that I'm running a 12V vacuum pump to my MC so it pulls more vacuum than the engine does with one-way valves to make this all work.  I see they're available from Moss for not a crazy price but suspect it may not work with my setup. 

Cheers Gavin