New Track Limits regulation proposed by MotorsportUK

[john.r.davies]

Track Limits" have long been  defined by a white line along the edge of the tarmac, and driving beyond that is 'exceeding the track limits' a punishable offence.   But the 'exceeding' part has been poorly defined.    MotorsportUK propose that, " A driver will be judged to have left the track if any part of the tyre  goes completely
beyond either the outer edge of any kerb or the white line where there is no kerb."  Q.12.21.2.b   See: https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Action-Sheet-Track-Limits-3-1.pdf

I'm fine with this, but would like a fuller definition of the white line.    Areas outside the solid white line may be marked with diagonal cross hatching, and kerbs may be painted white continuously with the white line.  EG

Or even:

They are asking for consultation, use  <raceconsultation@motorsportuk.org> and the deadline is February 20th.    I've asked for a better definition of the width of the white lines!

John

[kevin bryant]

So effectively touch the red and white kerb in your first picture and by definition part of your tyre has gone beyond the white line and so exceeded the track limits. No more bouncing over the kerbs, you have to drive around them. That right in the event of a white line being a white line and not a white line is the line plus the kerbing?

Kev

[john.r.davies]

That's exactly what is not clear, Kev!  MotorsportUK provides no exanple pics, but the CSCC does, and this car would, they say  exceed the limit:

That is way, way over the solid white line, but only just further out than the white stripes on the kerbing.   As said, I've asked for better definition of the white line, and its breadth.    MpsortUK have auto-acknowledged  and said too many for individual responses, so have to wait and see.

John

[alan57]

Presumably, in the Datsun photo above, it is considered to have exceeded the limits because "part of the tyre" is beyond "the outer edge of the kerb"? Further definition is required not only of "white line", but also "outer edge of kerb". The amended penalties are more immediate too - no "free pass" (or warning) for first (or 2nd) contravention during the race.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by alan57

[Hamish]

I think I recall that in our sprints the offence leading to “time deleted” is all 4 wheels beyond track limits. Track limits being the white line. With separate  time penalties for dislodging a marker post.
 

this is  what I will be going for in my response.

As for circuit racing all tracks have been built or amended with curbs that can be used.

where track areas shouldn’t be used some form of barrier or marker is used. 

I think the proposal won’t go down very well. 
the existing just need policing. Not new rules 
 

[Hamish]

18 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

That's exactly what is not clear, Kev!  MotorsportUK provides no exanple pics, but the CSCC does, and this car would, they say  exceed the limit:

That is way, way over the solid white line, but only just further out than the white stripes on the kerbing.   As said, I've asked for better definition of the white line, and its breadth.    MpsortUK have auto-acknowledged  and said too many for individual responses, so have to wait and see.

John

John quote 

A driver will be judged to have left the track if any part of the tyre  goes completely
beyond either the outer edge of any kerb or the white line where there is no kerb."  

I would say the Datsun is in and it’s not beyond the kerb. The true kerb being the green concrete.

 

[john.r.davies]

The above discussion shows that none of us can agree on the rule, and that better definition is needed!

Edited February 4, 2023 by john.r.davies

[Peter Cobbold]

I read it as meaning no part of a tyre should depart off the black stuff. So if a sidewall overhangs the white line or curb it has left the track.

[Hamish]

White line or kerb Peter ?

[dave bailey]

I think that the CSCC whose pictures we see, have interpreted the rule as Peter has suggested, ie if the sidewall of the tyre (nearest the edge of the track) overhangs either the white line, when there is no kerb, or, if there is a kerb, then the kerb outside edge, then the car is deemed to have exceeded track limits.  I assume that the CSCC have done their homework and this is an accurate interpretation. 

[Hamish]

So every track is like Monaco 

the white line should be treated as a barrier. ?

[john.r.davies]

Watched qualifying for the Bahrain GP last night, and sure enough several who were pushing it got their outside wheel well over the white line and onto the kerbing, without penalty.   A few even got the inside wheels over, but the kerbing is wider than their track, and they weren't penalised either!

I know this hardly applies to any circuit where clubs will be racing, not even Silverstone (The pic above of the blue and white Datsun is, I think, the exit from Luffield 2, and represents most if not all kerbing at the 'Stone), but are rules  different for F1?

John

[Motorsport Mickey]

" but are rules  different for F1?"

Yes, judging upon how they apply (or don't, whatever ruling has been talked about).

Mick Richards

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Motorsport Mickey

[roy53]

Dave Mc and i spoke with Hugo at race retro on this very point.

Was told that there is no change from previous years.  It was just a point for disscusion.

Will soon find out what the truth is at Snetterton. If true can you imagine how many judges will be needed ?

Roy

[john.r.davies]

Having been summoned to have a word with the Clerk on this very point, at Brands, which I why I'm anxious for clarity,  I think that senior marshals in each post are appointed as Race Observers, and call in transgressors.    See G.9.1 et seqq.

John

[Motorsport Mickey]

I'd go and ask the Clerk of the course before racing starts John, they'll normally give a quick word and advise. In fact it may remind him and he could call an impromptu meeting for all drivers to lay the law down so he can impose it strictly...or not.

Mick Richards

[john.r.davies]

Perhaps as a question at Drivers' Briefing?

[john.r.davies]

5 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Having been summoned to have a word with the Clerk on this very point, at Brands, which I why I'm anxious for clarity,  I think that senior marshals in each post are appointed as Race Observers, and call in transgressors.    See G.9.1 et seqq.

John

I am informed, in another place, that some posts have Observers, some don't, who report any driving offence. If no observer on post, either the post before or after if seen would contact race control.  So, an excess of Judges not needed?

John

[roy53]

John brands is one of the circuits that has censors in 3 places along with a camera on the bottom straight . Mr Palmer likes to protect his grass .

[john.r.davies]

Roy,

To be clear, what's a "censor" in this application?

You're right - it was the bottom straight, the turn into, after Graham Hill Bend!

John