Windscreen Capping

[DMRL]

Hi All,

I am fitting a new windscreen capping this weekend.

Have had a quick trial fit and the new capping fits down tight and flush to the windscreen frame in the middles and is lifted up slightly each end.

Should it fit tight down to the frame all the way or be lifted up slightly so the hood lips over it when fitted?

I dont currently have a frame or hood in the car to see how it goes.

If someone could take a picture of their capping so i can copy that would be great.

Thanks! 

 

 

[RogerH]

Is the capping for a TR4 or 4A surrey?

If it is then you will need a gap underneath at the .front to allow the roof fabric to tuck under.

On mine I fitted packers underneath to give a uniform gap.

Don't forget to fill the empty space with a sealant to stop rain water pouring.

 

Roger

[DMRL]

Thanks Roger.

 

Mine is a Tr4a with a soft top only

 

 

[RogerH]

In that case the capping should simply lay flat on the screen frame - with sealant between.

 

Roger

[tr graham]

Good luck if it is one of the current new offerings, poor fit and wrong at both ends 

graham 

[Besalu]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:59 PM, RogerH said:

Is the capping for a TR4 or 4A surrey?

If it is then you will need a gap underneath at the .front to allow the roof fabric to tuck under.

On mine I fitted packers underneath to give a uniform gap.

Don't forget to fill the empty space with a sealant to stop rain water pouring.

 

Roger

I have just fitted a new capping on my 4a Surrey  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/capping-windscreen-frame-aluminium-806189.html?assoc=119143

and the gap at the front is too narrow for the fabric to tuck under (although there's not much in it). You say Roger that you fitted packers underneath to give a more uniform gap. Can you remember what you used? Just some strips of sheet metal? There was no issue pop-riviting the capper back on with the packing inserted?

I remember reading another thread a while back where a forum user created a dolly of two blocks of wood which were placed in a vice and the capper inserted between the two blocks and tightened in the vice. This stretched the aluminum a little bit just enough to fit the capper i assume without the need for packing. I can't find that thread now - does anyone remember seeing it?

[RogerH]

Hi,

I did indeed use packers under the cap.

You need to end up with a raised front edge and the rear edge resting on the screen frame.

This will leave a gap between cap and frame at the rivet holes - so this area needs supporting (washer etc)

The gap at the front is apprx 4 - 5mm.

I used Ali packer just forward of the rivet packers.  They must be set far enough back to allow the fabric to fit in.

ALSO - when you are ready to rivet it together you need to put NON-setting sealant between cap and frame. Otherwise the from will fill with water.

All a bit trial and error but it worked.

 

Roger

[rcreweread]

Just to be clear, DRML ( a name would be good?) has a soft top TR4A and hence the capping he needs is the one which doesn't have the raised lip at the front under which the earlier TR4 hoods and Surrey top hoods fit - they are different cappings.

The one he needs, as Roger says, sits flush to the top of the windscreen frame all the way along - still need to put a sealer underneath it to stop rain ingress. They are made of thin anodised aluminium so not that difficult to reshape to get it fitting flush.

However, as Graham has pointed out, the repros are not a very accurate fit so you are better off trying to find a good used original.

Cheers Rich

[Besalu]

Thank you Roger,

Richard

[Besalu]

I found some time this weekend just gone to work on the Surrey soft top. I followed Roger's advice about placing some washers under the capper and the leading edge of the top now tucks under there nicely.

Fitting the rear end was not so easy. It was an extremely tight fit and the two threaded ends of the H-frame were at maximum adjustment. It took a bit of persuasion but i managed to get the two locating pins in to the top of the backlight and winged bolts screwed in from underneath (IMG 4687). However something is not right as i tightened the two winged bolts the vinyl top lifted leaving a 3/4 inch gap between the backlight and the vinyl (IMG 4684). Is that just a bad fitting top or have i done something wrong somewhere?

Now i need to fit the pop-studs. I understand that there should be studs at each corner, front and rear and i can see the holes on the backlight where i assume i pop-rivet the stud (IMG 4686). And i also assume one each side on the ends of the central H-frame rod. That leaves quite a few spare studs. Can anyone please supply photos of locations of where i should be fitting these pop studs?

Many thanks in advance, Richard

 

[RogerH]

Hi Richard,

there should be a stud in each forward corner

There should be 4 studs across the centre cross shaft - where the flap on the fabric is.

 

Roger

[keith1948]

I have been down this route before........

The soft Surrey top needs the windscreen capping that sticks out more than the drop head soft top capping. This is to allow the front of the Surrey soft top to tuck underneath at the front. Mine was a bit tight but with bits of wood and a lever bar I managed to raise the front enough to fit the Surrey soft top underneath. I didn't use any wedges. Once fitted the Surrey capping also works for the original drop head top that has two release levers fastened on the inside of the top of the windscreen frame. The drop head capping is not suitable for the Surrey soft top because you can't fit the front of the Surrey under it.

The H frame fits into the backlight holes first and the windscreen top second. There are rubber fittings that go into the holes on the front capping that the front of the H frame fits into.

Fit the front of the Surrey soft top under the capping first and then fit the rear locating pins into the holes of the backlight top. It helps if the car is in the sun and the vinyl is then softer. As well as the 4 studs (one at each corner) there are 2 on the end of the middle bar of the H frame. As Roger has said there are 4 more on the flap under the middle of the soft top which folds around the centre bar of the H frame and clips onto 4 poppers riveted onto the frame. At the top of the A and B posts there are little hooks that are for attachment of the  elastic tape that should be fastened to the corners of the soft top. On your 2nd photo I can just see one of these between the top of the side window and frame and attached to the backlight frame.

The back should not lift up in the middle. Below I have attached links (hopefully) where I have posted several photos in the past showing various parts of the Surrey fitting points with some measurements.

Keith

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/68854-surrey-soft-top-rivets/&tab=comments#comment-617719

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/68683-surrey-hardtop/&tab=comments#comment-616672

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/67918-surrey-top-fixing-hooks/&tab=comments#comment-607757

 

[stuart]

I have found that the current repro rear bar is actually too wide between the mounting bushes and they need grinding off on the outer edges to allow the bar to fit correctly, it is also bent too much across the curve and needs straightening out a bit to sit correctly across the rear frame.

Stuart.

[Besalu]

Perfect, Keith, Stuart, thank you both very much for your input. Keith i will take a closer look at those links you posted with the photos.

Stuart, the rear bar that sits between the two mounting bushes is stitched inside the vinyl. The only way to grind off the ends would mean taking it out and re-stitching it back up again afterwards is that correct?

The other thing i need to get my head around is the seal between the edge of the backlight and the door windows. I know there's a few threads about this on here and i need to study it in more detail but is it number 2 & 4 that i need to buy from this link: https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/weather-equipment/hard-tops/surrey-top-fittings-tr4-4a-1961-67.html

On one of the links you posted Keith i see the rubber seal goes all the way around from one side to the other. Is that original spec or is it an adaptation you made yourself?

 

[keith1948]

The items 2 and 4 you refer to are - item 2 is a metal channel that runs up each the side of the Surrey and is basically a continuation of the channel around the door. There is a rubber seal that fits into it - item 4. Sometimes the metal channel is missing because it has been lost over the years during previous restorations. 

The rubber/furflex is another seal that pushes onto the flange of the forward edge of the Surrey fram if that makes sense. It also pushes over part numbers 25 and 26 on the link you gave to hold them onto the front flange. The rear edge of these fit under the rear screen rubber. Item 5 is the hook that the elasticated strap fits to. This is attached inside the back of the vinyl top just above the rear top of the side windows. On my car the rubber/furflex runs around the Surrey frame but stops on each side at the top of the B post so I can remove the Surrey and go back to the drop head top if I want to.

Best thing is to look at another car with a Surrey to see exactly what fits where because it is a bit of a jigsaw.

Keith

p.s. I rebuilt the steel hard top and replaced all the seals and the headlining. That is a job and a half.

[stuart]

If you look carefully at the pocket that that rear bar sits in you should see that it is open at one end and it can be slid out with a bit of a wriggle.

Stuart.

[Besalu]

Ahhhh, i didn't notice that Stuart. Brilliant, thank you!

[Besalu]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:26 PM, stuart said:

I have found that the current repro rear bar is actually too wide between the mounting bushes and they need grinding off on the outer edges to allow the bar to fit correctly, it is also bent too much across the curve and needs straightening out a bit to sit correctly across the rear frame.

Stuart.

Stuart, i have removed the rear bar and before i attempt modifications and do any irreparable damage i would just like to ask you a couple of questions. It is clear that the bar is bent too much across the curve (photos attached). When i attempt to straighten out the curve will this not alter the position of the mounting bushes, pushing them outwards meaning they will no longer fit into the holes on the backlight? (IMG with the arrows).

Do i need to cut the bushes off and re-weld them once i have straightened out the bar to fit the correct curvature of the backlight and is this what you mean when you say  "bar is actually too wide between the mounting bushes and they need grinding off on the outer edges to allow the bar to fit correctly"

I appreciate your help on this Stuart,

Richard

[stuart]

Yes it does need the curve to be slightly lessened, on the last couple Ive fitted just grinding a bit off the relevant sidewall of each mounting bush was enough to allow the bar to sit properly. Whether that would be the case with yours i couldnt tell you but youll be able to tell if you can get away with that once you have bar in the right shape.

Stuart.