TRGB Fuel Pump Kit Installation

[stuart]

4 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Great Sean,

I carefully removed the old hose from the ferrule.

For this I first ground the thin metal compression sleeve, 2 longitudinal splits were enough. Then with a sharp knive I made some cuts in the rubber, from the end of the hose in length (to not damage the tapered part of the barbs), and removed the old hose.

Then cleaned the old fittings with fine steel wire spunge (the ferrule looked pretty new by the way), slid hose on one fitting (pump side), and trial fitted the hose in situ to determine the optimum length of the hose.

Then cut the hose too the required (marked) length and  went to an hydraulic shop.

Regards,

Waldi

You may struggle in this country to find a hydraulic hose supplier who would do that over here due to Health and safety concerns.

Stuart.

[Waldi]

Companies like Pirtec, which you also have in the UK, can do this job (easily). I guess Stuart you mean potential product warranty issues may be an issue: the company becoming responsible in case of failure (leakage or worse). 

The shop I went just said “come to us and we will help you”.

Hope the same works for you Sean.

Waldi

[SeanF]

42 minutes ago, stuart said:

You may struggle in this country to find a hydraulic hose supplier who would do that over here due to Health and safety concerns.

Stuart.

Oops.....

[Waldi]

There are more fuel hoses in the boot, but as a start I renewed all other (low pressure) hoses with standard quality fuel hose from Gates (much cheaper and readily available here), but if I have a smell in the boot I will replace all those too with the Barricade hoses.

Has anyone experience in using the Barricade hose for the high pressure only (and the rest “standard”). Did it resolve the smell-issue?

I assumed (not based on facts) that higher pressure results in higher permeability losses, but that may not be correct.

Waldi

[iani]

5 minutes ago, Waldi said:

There are more fuel hoses in the boot, but as a start I renewed all other (low pressure) hoses with standard quality fuel hose from Gates (much cheaper and readily available here), but if I have a smell in the boot I will replace all those too with the Barricade hoses.

Has anyone experience in using the Barricade hose for the high pressure only (and the rest “standard”). Did it resolve the smell-issue?

I assumed (not based on facts) that higher pressure results in higher permeability losses, but that may not be correct.

Waldi

I currently have all standard hoses except for the PRV to pump which is a Revington's stainless braided one, they told me it would prevent the smell and they have been proven correct.

[Waldi]

Thanks Ian,

that’s good to know.

Waldi

[Mike C]

2 hours ago, Waldi said:

There are more fuel hoses in the boot, but as a start I renewed all other (low pressure) hoses with standard quality fuel hose from Gates (much cheaper and readily available here), but if I have a smell in the boot I will replace all those too with the Barricade hoses.

Has anyone experience in using the Barricade hose for the high pressure only (and the rest “standard”). Did it resolve the smell-issue?

I assumed (not based on facts) that higher pressure results in higher permeability losses, but that may not be correct.

Waldi

I switched to all Barricade hoses when I had the MU & injectors refurbished & recalibrated . The petrol smell disappeared afterwards, don't know how much each of the two operations contributed to this. 

[astontr6]

3 hours ago, Waldi said:

There are more fuel hoses in the boot, but as a start I renewed all other (low pressure) hoses with standard quality fuel hose from Gates (much cheaper and readily available here), but if I have a smell in the boot I will replace all those too with the Barricade hoses.

Has anyone experience in using the Barricade hose for the high pressure only (and the rest “standard”). Did it resolve the smell-issue?

I assumed (not based on facts) that higher pressure results in higher permeability losses, but that may not be correct.

Waldi

Hi Waldi,

I went over to all Gates Barricade hoses 2 years ago in the boot of my car, except the filler cap to tank, which I am about to do as I have just replaced my 45 +year old PRV with a new KMI one. I have not gone for a diaphragm type because I do not know how resistant the diaphragm is to the current petrol as I have had a number of 'O' rings break up on my PI system over the last 2 years. My pump to PRV is a 225 psi Gates Hose of 2 years old and I have had not problems of petrol smell from the O/D or Harmonic noise. 

[astontr6]

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

Waldi,

I've just ordered 2 feet of 4219BF from the US at exhorbitant cost. $12 for the hose and $19 for delivery . All I need to do now is work out how to get the couplings fitted when it arrives.

Thanks again.

Sean

Hi Sean!

If you live near High Wycombe go to Spectrum Hose they have all the correct fittings that you require. They have a web page and are connected to the Motor Sport Market.

Bruce.

[SeanF]

58 minutes ago, astontr6 said:

Hi Sean!

If you live near High Wycombe go to Spectrum Hose they have all the correct fittings that you require. They have a web page and are connected to the Motor Sport Market.

Bruce.

Thanks Bruce. I'm not a million miles away so will look them up

[Waldi]

Hi Mike and Bruce,

thank you, now we have more confirmation we can solve the fuel smell in our boots with the proper hoses, and that it is not just a “marketing thing”.

It’s a pity Gates Barricade is so hard to get in Europe. But all modern cars don’t smell, so what spec would “moderns” use??

Food for thought.

Waldi

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, astontr6 said:

Hi Waldi,

I went over to all Gates Barricade hoses 2 years ago in the boot of my car, except the filler cap to tank, which I am about to do as I have just replaced my 45 +year old PRV with a new KMI one. I have not gone for a diaphragm type because I do not know how resistant the diaphragm is to the current petrol as I have had a number of 'O' rings break up on my PI system over the last 2 years. My pump to PRV is a 225 psi Gates Hose of 2 years old and I have had not problems of petrol smell from the O/D or Harmonic noise. 

I am already using Gates Barricade 30R14T1 (bought from Moss) for all the hoses except the High Pressure pump to PRV so I am hoping that changing out the HP will cure the problem. One question I have though is should I have clips on the joints between this and the metal tails on these smaller hoses? I have seen many installations without clips but also many with.

Thanks

 

[Mike C]

I use 2 ss jubilee clips on each hose connection . When I checked the pressure rating on the clips 100 psi was well within the rating of a single clip in these pipe diameters. I use 2 in case one works loose -ss jubilee clips are cheap enough. Might be unnecessary, but I also install the jubilee clip screw adjusters 180 degrees apart.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Mike C

[astontr6]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I am already using Gates Barricade 30R14T1 (bought from Moss) for all the hoses except the High Pressure pump to PRV so I am hoping that changing out the HP will cure the problem. One question I have though is should I have clips on the joints between this and the metal tails on these smaller hoses? I have seen many installations without clips but also many with.

Thanks

 

Hi Sean,

All mine are clipped, purely for safety reasons! BL did not clip them from new but they used a tight fitting hose which has always been difficult to obtain?

Bruce.

[Waldi]

Hi Sean, 

my return lines were also without jubilee clips, but I installed the new hoses on the low pressure system with single clips. 

Additionally, f a return line blocks (known to happen), this line will be exposed to high pressure, so a clip is a good idea.

Waldi

Edited December 6, 2018 by Waldi

[iani]

Progress is being made, I’m now happy with where everything fits, I’ve bought a 30mm hole saw and I’ve even sourced the fuel cut off tap, all was set for fitting today until I discovered I’d bought the wrong size outlet for the fuel tank. I’d searched for it an some helpful person had posted 1/2”, looks like it should have been 1/4” instead, so that’s next weekend taken up too. I have run a new, relay supplied, power feed too.

Ian

Edited December 8, 2018 by iani

[Waldi]

Hi Ian,

I used a 1/2” UNF. (Not BSP) bolt to machine a ferrule from for the tank outlet.

Waldi

[iani]

10 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Ian,

I used a 1/2” UNF. (Not BSP) bolt to machine a ferrule from for the tank outlet.

Waldi

This is why I made my comment about a lot of us liking to use kits, all these different threads are difficult to understand when you aren't an Engineer frankly, I can join bits together, I just can't guarantee that I'll buy the right bits in the first place!

[Waldi]

I fully understand Ian,

since I’m not Brittish, UNF, BSP etc are confusing for me too at times, and then the Bosch pump outlet it metric fine.

I tried a 1/2” UNF bolt in the tank and to my surprise it had a good grip. So had that machined to a ferrule to accept 10 mm hose with an ID of 8.5 mm.

Regards,

Waldi

[iani]

1 minute ago, Waldi said:

I fully understand Ian,

since I’m not Brittish, UNF, BSP etc are confusing for me too at times, and then the Bosch pump outlet it metric fine.

I tried a 1/2” UNF bolt in the tank and to my surprise it had a good grip. So had that machined to a ferrule to accept 10 mm hose with an ID of 8.5 mm.

Regards,

Waldi

I have bought the on/off tap recommended by HarryTR5 earlier, it comes with 1/4" ports, these take the spigot that came with my pump kit at one end, I need another one for the other end. As the spigot that came with the kit fits in one of the 1/4 pump ports, I am assuming (always a risk!) that this is the right size for the tank outlet, we will see.

[astontr6]

15 hours ago, Waldi said:

I fully understand Ian,

since I’m not Brittish, UNF, BSP etc are confusing for me too at times, and then the Bosch pump outlet it metric fine.

I tried a 1/2” UNF bolt in the tank and to my surprise it had a good grip. So had that machined to a ferrule to accept 10 mm hose with an ID of 8.5 mm.

Regards,

Waldi

To further confuse the issue, I think you will find that it is a JIC size which uses UNF thread sizes same as metal pipe bleed back from the M/U. It all gets very tricky!

Bruce.

[astontr6]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:17 AM, Waldi said:

Hi Mike and Bruce,

thank you, now we have more confirmation we can solve the fuel smell in our boots with the proper hoses, and that it is not just a “marketing thing”.

It’s a pity Gates Barricade is so hard to get in Europe. But all modern cars don’t smell, so what spec would “moderns” use??

Food for thought.

Waldi

Hi Waldi,

They use a DIN spec.73379-2A made by Coline, obtainable here in the UK from Spectrum Hose in High Wycombe. My suspicions are  that Gates has agreed not to come into the European market with that product and we will not go into yours?????

Bruce.

[Mike C]

I found a comprehensive set of thread gauges at a local swap meet- I've found them invaluable when  messing around with any old machines.

[Waldi]

1 hour ago, astontr6 said:

Hi Waldi,

They use a DIN spec.73379-2A made by Coline, obtainable here in the UK from Spectrum Hose in High Wycombe. My suspicions are  that Gates has agreed not to come into the European market with that product and we will not go into yours?????

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

that could well be the case, other (std) Gates fuel hoses are readily available here in... Holland.

Cohline is Germany based but also sold in the UK and Holland. I do not have access to the DIN specification DIN 73379-2A, but notice it is available in Holland (Cohline type 2134) for only 14 euro/m (10 mm). It is rated at10 bar, tested at 20 and burst pressure >30 bar but only up to a temperature of 50 degrees C, so ok for the hose from pump to PRV, but not sure about the hose to the MU, since the warm engine radiates quite some heat (think of traffic jam in summer. The Coline info on the web looks rather dated, but I guess is still accurate?

Best regards,

Waldi

[iani]

 More progress today, pump fitted behind wheel arch, filter loosely in position in boot. I still need to obtain a tank outlet adaptor, confirmation of the size would be helpful, I'm then concerned at the overall size of the filter that has been supplied, it seems physically a lot larger than others I've seen and the plumbing will be tight with the on/off tap included, I may need to buy more fuel hose to fit everything and avoid a tight loop.