Waldi Posted August 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 Rem, Good question, and I don't know the answer. I had my injector pipes refurbished by Neil Ferguson: the fittings were newly plated and new nylon pipes fitted. One of my old pipes has a small crack at one fitting. I am not sure wether and to what extend the nylon is attacked by ethanol containing fuel or not, maybe others know this? Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Small update on the minimum required bending radius for the Gates Barricade MPI Fuel Hose: I could not find it on the web, so mailed Gates: The min. Req. bending radius is: 65 mm for 1/4" ID hose 75 mm for 5/16" ID hose 85 mm for 3/8" ID hose 140 mm for 1/2" ID hose. I only have 5/16" and 3/8" hoses on my car for the high pressure hoses. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Has anyone ever written anything about resonance and how to run pipes to minimize with the standard prv? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Waldi did you see the triangular external swirl tank for Bosch also posted in this group. While you are at it it might be a solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 (edited) I don't think nylon injector pipes suffer. I am thinking about people who swapped to braided before the fuels became even more agressive in last couple of years. Their pipes might be melting and they won't see it under the steel braiding.! Edited August 26, 2017 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Small update on the minimum required bending radius for the Gates Barricade MPI Fuel Hose: I could not find it on the web, so mailed Gates: The min. Req. bending radius is: 65 mm for 1/4" ID hose 75 mm for 5/16" ID hose 85 mm for 3/8" ID hose 140 mm for 1/2" ID hose. I only have 5/16" and 3/8" hoses on my car for the high pressure hoses. Waldi Now when you say minimum do you mean maximum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Has anyone ever written anything about resonance and how to run pipes to minimize with the standard prv? Hi Rem18, Yes!In answer to your question, the problem is that some of the PI suppliers insist that they offer 1000 psi PTFE smooth bore hose with s/s braid. This type of hose has no give in it and is not very flexible and is subject to known harmonic resonance in other applications. I even had that problem with 400psi rated hose made from rubber! I was told by an aerospace hose supplier to change to 150 rated flexible rubber hose or convoluted PTFE rated at 150psi and he supplied the made up rubber hoses and I have never had this problem again.That was 30 years ago! I am now using Gates barricade hose which has plenty of give in it and this problem has not re- occurred in12 months usage so far! Â Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Hi Rem18, Yes!In answer to your question, the problem is that some of the PI suppliers insist that they offer 1000 psi PTFE smooth bore hose with s/s braid. This type of hose has no give in it and is not very flexible and is subject to known harmonic resonance in other applications. I even had that problem with 400psi rated hose made from rubber! I was told by an aerospace hose supplier to change to 150 rated flexible rubber hose or convoluted PTFE rated at 150psi and he supplied the made up rubber hoses and I have never had this problem again.That was 30 years ago! I am now using Gates barricade hose which has plenty of give in it and this problem has not re- occurred in12 months usage so far! Â Bruce. Thanks Bruce. I just changed some hoses with my spare h/p stock and getting some cyclic resonance (like 3 every 10s) I think it's due to the longer pipe length I left trying to be clever on the pipes. My question was more about dampening. I think that it has a lot to do with bends, lengths and maybe where pipes touch bodywork? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 (edited) https://m.ebay.it/itm/GATES-BARRICADE-ETHANOL-PROOF-FUEL-PETROL-HOSE-PER-METER-1-4-INCH-ID-GFH1025X-/142464935060?hash=item212b926494%3Ag%3ATXwAAOSw5cNYiHfx&_trkparms=pageci%253A9d0049c0-8a5e-11e7-a2cd-74dbd180fbca%257Cparentrq%253A1ea19ffa15e0ab670a698815fffd6b04%257Ciid%253A2I Â just saw Moss Offer Gates Barricade?? Edited August 26, 2017 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Rem, I have a baffled tank so will try that first before I consider a swirl tank / pot. Â The bending radius of the hose is the minimum required, so it should be that or bigger. Sorry if my English is not clear now and then. Â Regarding the Nylon: I did read a test somewhere that the tensile stress was reduced by some 30% for Nylon 6-6 after being submerged in E10 for some time. Not sure if our hose is made from grade 6-6. I am sure age, temperature and naybe also UV may contribute also. Â Regarding the vibrations: Like Bruce said: Softer rubber hose will act as a pulsation damper. The lenght of a hose plays a role too, making a vibrating hose a bit longer or shorter may resolve the vibrations, and also adding a clamp. The best location can be found easiest by experimenting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 https://m.ebay.it/itm/GATES-BARRICADE-ETHANOL-PROOF-FUEL-PETROL-HOSE-PER-METER-1-4-INCH-ID-GFH1025X-/142464935060?hash=item212b926494%3Ag%3ATXwAAOSw5cNYiHfx&_trkparms=pageci%253A9d0049c0-8a5e-11e7-a2cd-74dbd180fbca%257Cparentrq%253A1ea19ffa15e0ab670a698815fffd6b04%257Ciid%253A2I Â just saw Moss Offer Gates Barricade?? Very good Moss sell this quality hose. Be aware this is a low pressure fuel hose, suitable for return lines, not for the high pressure (110 psi) applications. When I called Moss-UK some 2 months ago and asked what make/spec they used for the HP hoses, they answered is did not have markings on the hose but should be ok, that did not appeal to me. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Very good Moss sell this quality hose. Be aware this is a low pressure fuel hose, suitable for return lines, not for the high pressure (110 psi) applications. When I called Moss-UK some 2 months ago and asked what make/spec they used for the HP hoses, they answered is did not have markings on the hose but should be ok, that did not appeal to me. Waldi Of course it has to be high pressure. I am inclined it's just easier to fit Hugh pressure everywhere rather than worry about mixed specs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Rem, I have a baffled tank so will try that first before I consider a swirl tank / pot. Â The bending radius of the hose is the minimum required, so it should be that or bigger. Sorry if my English is not clear now and then. Â Regarding the Nylon: I did read a test somewhere that the tensile stress was reduced by some 30% for Nylon 6-6 after being submerged in E10 for some time. Not sure if our hose is made from grade 6-6. I am sure age, temperature and naybe also UV may contribute also. Â Regarding the vibrations: Like Bruce said: Softer rubber hose will act as a pulsation damper. The lenght of a hose plays a role too, making a vibrating hose a bit longer or shorter may resolve the vibrations, and also adding a clamp. The best location can be found easiest by experimenting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Just a small update and a heads up for those planning to order Gates hoses: I ordered a spare hose from Moss (Bosch pump to PRV), it came with a Codan 3106 hose (or 3108, the printing is a bit faded), this is not a low permeability hose and looked very thin to me. Unlike the fuel injection hoses which have a high pressure rating and typically have inlays vulcanized in the rubber which this hose has not, so I replaced the Codan hose by a Gates Barricade hose using the Moss fittings. These fittings were 8 mm, not 10 mm. So be aware you order the correct hose to suit your fittings. I will contact Moss to verify the pressure rating, so they can double check (they are always very responsive/helpfull). Â Edit: Moss part number: TGK1255 Â Waldi Edited December 29, 2018 by Waldi added Moss part# Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kawedo Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Hello Waldi, Here are the pressure infos https://www2.codan.com/node/28212 Greetings Charly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Hi Waldi, Â Â Â Â the above spec states this - Must not be used in cars with injection systems. Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 Thanks Charly and Roger. I had seen this supplier info, and the note it is not suitable for cars with fuel injection. I provided this information yesterday to Moss (including a link to the Codan hose info and my recommendation for an alternative hose) and asked for a response, which I’m sure will come; will keep you all informed on the outcome. Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, Waldi said: Just a small update and a heads up for those planning to order Gates hoses: I ordered a spare hose from Moss (Bosch pump to PRV), it came with a Codan 3106 hose (or 3108, the printing is a bit faded), this is not a low permeability hose and looked very thin to me. Unlike the fuel injection hoses which have a high pressure rating and typically have inlays vulcanized in the rubber which this hose has not, so I replaced the Codan hose by a Gates Barricade hose using the Moss fittings. These fittings were 8 mm, not 10 mm. So be aware you order the correct hose to suit your fittings. I will contact Moss to verify the pressure rating, so they can double check (they are always very responsive/helpfull).  Edit: Moss part number: TGK1255  Waldi The original BL. hose was 3/8" Bore with the correct fittings to suit in 3/8" BSP if I remember correctly. I used 3/8" bore Gates Barricade rated at 225 PSI WP with my old fittings re-plated in zinc and pass. with new swaged sleeves, has been running for 2 years. I do not recommend using jubilee clips in high pressure applications as they only load a small area of the rubber sheave and are subject to over tightening! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AarhusTr6 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Good post Waldi For a Carb Version, do the requirements change much? Rich  Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 20 hours ago, AarhusTr6 said: Good post Waldi For a Carb Version, do the requirements change much? Rich  Thanks Rich, For a carburettor equipped car Gates also manufactures the barricade hoses in several diameters. The fuel pressure is much lower than in PI cars, so a cheaper and more available hose is then preferred. Moss sells the carburettor hose but others may have it too. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/fuel-hose-gates-barricade-ethanol-proof-5-16-id-per-metre-gfh1031x.html Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 12/29/2018 at 12:37 PM, Waldi said: Just a small update and a heads up for those planning to order Gates hoses: I ordered a spare hose from Moss (Bosch pump to PRV), it came with a Codan 3106 hose (or 3108, the printing is a bit faded), this is not a low permeability hose and looked very thin to me. Unlike the fuel injection hoses which have a high pressure rating and typically have inlays vulcanized in the rubber which this hose has not, so I replaced the Codan hose by a Gates Barricade hose using the Moss fittings. These fittings were 8 mm, not 10 mm. So be aware you order the correct hose to suit your fittings. I will contact Moss to verify the pressure rating, so they can double check (they are always very responsive/helpfull).  Edit: Moss part number: TGK1255  Waldi Update: Today Moss (Adam) contacted me, and indicated they will look into the issue. Moss are receptive to my feedback.  I proposed to use the Gates Barricade fuel injection hose which is better suited for this pressure (the Codan hose that was fitted to my fuel pipe was very thin and had no inlays) and this change would make Moss the only supplier with Gates Barricade fuel injection hoses for our PI-cars (afik). Let’s hope this is followed up by Moss. Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeanF Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Thanks for your work on this Waldi. I received my Gates Barricade hose in the post over Christmas. Yesterday I took the Moss hose off the car so that I can retrieve the end connectors to fit to the barricade. My Moss hose is made by Aeroquip, not Codan (Lucas set up). The outside of the rubber hose absolutely stinks of petrol which has clearly been permeating through, and it has only driven 150 miles from new. So I am hoping for great things from the Gates Barricade  . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted January 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi Sean, good you have the Gates hose now. I went to a shop like Pirtek who pressed the steel sleeves on the hose with fittings. I do not recommend jubilee clips for this service, but am aware several others have done that. Have you contacted Moss? Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 3:38 PM, Waldi said: Thanks Rich, For a carburettor equipped car Gates also manufactures the barricade hoses in several diameters. The fuel pressure is much lower than in PI cars, so a cheaper and more available hose is then preferred. Moss sells the carburettor hose but others may have it too. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/fuel-hose-gates-barricade-ethanol-proof-5-16-id-per-metre-gfh1031x.html Regards, Waldi Last year when I spoke to Moss about Gates hose. they informed me that they were importing it directly from their USA operation? I tried to get the PI version off them in 3/8" bore size but they were not importing that size at that time? Has this now changed? Also I spoke to Gate's main distributor FRS who have the agency for Barricade and they had none! So who sells the PI version in the UK if any? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) This should be it : Â Â https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwij8PupseXfAhVNSX0KHbAxD5wQFjAEegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2FGATES-27341-BARRICADE-FUEL-INJECTION-HOSE-4219-06043-%2F400997765698&usg=AOvVaw01Et_F6EkxZFYfog6TB2TN Looks like 10mm , fuel injection grade. Or this bloke, claims WP=15.5 bar = 225 psi: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwik6b26s-XfAhUL148KHUgVDIUQFjABegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.diycarserviceparts.co.uk%2Fgates-barricade-fuel-injection-hose-4219-06043-xxxxxxxxx-27341.html&usg=AOvVaw17MyU-YzaTh3UHoSwh6wP7 Edited January 11, 2019 by Mike C Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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