tonycharente Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hello All, A couple of specific questions about the available Hi Torque starter motors that I've not seen answered already, please... I am looking to purchase a Hi Torque starter motor pending sorting out the rebuild of my original starter motor. All of the suitable Hi Torque starter motors seem to come with a built in threaded stud (fixed in bolt) that is no doubt meant to assist getting the motor mounted onto the car. My car had a "long nose" M418G, L3, possibly part number 25521B (it's very hard to read), a "bolt on" ring gear, and a 10 tooth pinion. I would prefer to buy one without this stud (i.e. just with two holes, like the original starters) - does one exist please? Failing that, is there one where the built in threaded stud is at least on the bottom - as as far I can see if it's on the top it must make it even harder to fit due to the minimal access to the immediate other side of the bell-housing unless you have an access hole in the gearbox tunnel. Many thanks Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi Tony, I think the fixed bolt can be placed at the bottom. However having the fixed bolt at the top is helpful as you only need to be on one side of the motor. If it is loose then you need to hold both ends of the bolt. From underneath, although you can't see the threaded part, you can visualise it. Using a 12" extension, UJ and deep socket you can get the nut on fairly easily. I still think having an access hole in the tunnel is just so neat. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi Tony I struggled to fit mine in situ with 4 branch manifold etc. Thus I turned the plate 180 degrees and the bolt cleared the starter body and slotted home easier. It's recommended on here to loctite the plate to starter fixing bolts in case they work loose. These pics may help. H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Hi Tony ~ I fitted a high torque starter motor to my TR3A easily, with the carburettors and four branch manifold in place. As Roger suggests, I cut an access hole in the tunnel which gave me easy access to the top and bottom mounting bolts. Tom. Edited January 28, 2017 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Tis simple the motor is used on lots of cars,measure it and cut to length as required,before fitting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Thank you all for your replies - so no TR4A suitable Hi Torque starters without the fixed stud? I have a Hi Torque starter on my old Jag and it works very well. The Jag version does not have the built in stud, so it's very frustrating that the TR4A ones all seem to. I wonder why? >>>Roger, thanks again for suggesting cutting a hole in my transmission tunnel, it is greatly appreciated, but I am trying to avoid this if I can. I am looking into getting an original type replacement starter, or getting my existing one rebuilt if I can't find a Hi Torque one without the fixed stud. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Hi Tony, I can understand not wanting to cut holes here and there. The fixed bolt in the Hi-torque SM can be removed. If you look at Hamish's pics - the end plate can be removed and the bolt knocked out. Just make sure that you get the correct SM for your flywheel. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Hi Tony I struggled to fit mine in situ with 4 branch manifold etc. Thus I turned the plate 180 degrees and the bolt cleared the starter body and slotted home easier. It's recommended on here to loctite the plate to starter fixing bolts in case they work loose. These pics may help. H Hello Hamish, Thank you for your reply with the useful photos. What was the make of your Hi Torque starter, and have you been happy with it please? Thanks Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Price Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 The stud will knock out, it has a spline'd shaft. I did this on a TR6, I managed to fit a short bolt facing forward without too much trouble. If the TR4 is similar you can put the bolt in using long nose pliers but the bolt length needs to be checked first, hold that in place with an open ended spanner with a taped bit of plastic or metal to stop the bolt moving rearward, the spanner fixed vertically against the bulkhead. A shallow head nut and spring washer will just fit into the space on the starter body, and you need to slide the starter flange onto the bolt winding the nut on as the threads appear, then fit the bottom bolt. Your TR4 maybe similar. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Hi Tony It was from rimmers http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID200959 But looking today the prices have gone up dramatically since I bought mine in October. I paid nearer their ex vat price. And delivered with vat ?!?!? The brexit effect ? As to use it works for me with 9.5:1 compression then the original one failed. but it's only been a couple months H Ps it is wired so you can retain your original starter solenoid - not all hi torque can without a simple mode to wiring. Edited January 29, 2017 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Thank you all for your further replies. My car had a "long nose" M418G, L3, possibly part number 25521B (it's very hard to read), a "bolt on" ring gear, and a 10 tooth pinion. Rimmers are showing this one http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GEU4412UR at £225 (plus shipping), which as suggested by Hamish seems rather a lot... It would appear to be made by Powerlite. Going via the Powerlite website, it would appear that I need an "RAC 102", and searching on that has led me to this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TR3A-TR4-TR4A-STARTER-MOTOR-POWERLITE-/322174122805?hash=item4b0312fb35:g:GSQAAOSwEjFXc8Zq at £185 (+ £10 shipping to France = £195) from a vendor listed as a distributor on the Powerlite website. On this distributor's website I found this:- http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/product/powerlite-starter-motor-triumph-tr3a-tr4-and-tr4a/ at £170 (+ £20 shipping to France = £190.) Two more questions, please. Does this look to be the correct Hi Torque starter for my car? Any reason not to buy from "S-V-C" rather than Rimmers? Thank you all for your patience! Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would be more inclined to buy one from TR Shop as I have had some bad experiences with high torque ones self destructing. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Tony The Rimmer link you posted above is the one I bought. 1959 tr3a bolt on ring, 10 tooth starter . If the svc one is the same. Good find. Good price. And as you are sending to france. It's got to be the simplest opting you have found. I'm hoping mine is fit and forget. H If you need an original I got one from http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/phoenix-marine-electrics When I needed to replace a starter for a daimler sp250. May be worth a look Edited January 29, 2017 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would be more inclined to buy one from TR Shop as I have had some bad experiences with high torque ones self destructing. Stuart. 004 - Copy.JPG Hi Stuart, did you ever get that re-assembled. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would be more inclined to buy one from TR Shop as I have had some bad experiences with high torque ones self destructing. Stuart. 004 - Copy.JPG Hello Stuart, and thank you. What was the make or makes of the ones that you've had that blew up, please? I have sent an email to TR Shop asking them what make theirs is. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Together with some friends, we bought starters here http://www.britishstarters.com/Triumph.html a direct replacement of the originals. Driving them for years now, the 8 we bought all still working. With one of the starters, one of the bolts securing the plate to the body loosened a bit, when we checked others they were still secured. With shipping to europe, it would be 189£ Edited January 30, 2017 by EdwinTiben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Stuart, and thank you. What was the make or makes of the ones that you've had that blew up, please? I have sent an email to TR Shop asking them what make theirs is. Tony There was no makers name but it may have been removed by the dealer who sold it, there were lots supplied to the dealers at the time. At a quick glance they look the same as Powerlite but when stripped down they had no proper mount for the end bearing hence the self destruct ability after a short period of use. The TR Shop ones are proper Powerlite and are so much better constructed. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Together with some friends, we bought starters here http://www.britishstarters.com/Triumph.html a direct replacement of the originals. Driving them for years now, the 8 we bought all still working. With one of the starters, one of the bolts securing the plate to the body loosened a bit, when we checked others they were still secured. With shipping to europe, it would be 189£ Hello Edwin, Thank you for this suggestion - it looks to be a very nice product but there are potential problems with buying from the US. It's a bit hit or miss whether the purchase clears customs without having import duty imposed - causing delay and additional cost. Then, if ever there is a problem with the item, it costs a small fortune to return it. It's a shame they don't seem to have a UK (or French) importer - their Belgian one looks to be 50% dearer... But thank you anyway! Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 There was no makers name but it may have been removed by the dealer who sold it, there were lots supplied to the dealers at the time. At a quick glance they look the same as Powerlite but when stripped down they had no proper mount for the end bearing hence the self destruct ability after a short period of use. The TR Shop ones are proper Powerlite and are so much better constructed. Stuart. Thank you for this Stuart. I've not yet heard back from TR Shop. However I've now found the Powerlite "RAC 102" - which appears to be what I need - for sale in France for 233€ including delivery. At the "Brexit exchange rate that's slightly more than the cheapest UK shipped price I've found (£195) but should I have to send it back I can do so for free via PayPal, so I'm now close to deciding to buy a Powerlite "RAC 102" from the French supplier I've found. I'll give it another day or so in case I get any other suggestions... Thanks to all Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Tony I got one from these people 2 years ago, handy for me as I only live 6 or 7 miles away so went to their trade counter and got a good deal. It is a powerlite and if you look they are both the same address in Brierley Hill. http://www.eurolec-components.co.uk/cms/ May be worth a try I wired mine through the starter soleniod as I think there would be to much load on the ignition switch and it has not been any problem other than the funny noise they make. I must come clean mine is on a Triumph Spitfire but we have done about 14000 miles around Spain,Italy,Ireland and the usual trips to Spa and Le Mans Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Tony I got one from these people 2 years ago, handy for me as I only live 6 or 7 miles away so went to their trade counter and got a good deal. It is a powerlite and if you look they are both the same address in Brierley Hill. http://www.eurolec-components.co.uk/cms/ May be worth a try I wired mine through the starter soleniod as I think there would be to much load on the ignition switch and it has not been any problem other than the funny noise they make. I must come clean mine is on a Triumph Spitfire but we have done about 14000 miles around Spain,Italy,Ireland and the usual trips to Spa and Le Mans Roger Thank you Roger. "Powerlite" appears to be a trade mark of Eurolec, in which case they are the same company. However I've been unable to find the appropriate starter motor on the link you kindly included as you only seem able to search by part number, not by application - and "RAC 102" doesn't seem to work. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 There was no makers name but it may have been removed by the dealer who sold it, there were lots supplied to the dealers at the time. At a quick glance they look the same as Powerlite but when stripped down they had no proper mount for the end bearing hence the self destruct ability after a short period of use. The TR Shop ones are proper Powerlite and are so much better constructed. Stuart. The plot thickens... I have now had an interesting and helpful reply from TR Shop : The hi-torque starter motors are now £205.00 including VAT. These starter motors are made by a company called wosp and have been very well received. They are brand new, not reconditioned and are a 1.4KW motor not 1KW as some other suppliers sell. We went through many suppliers before finding a reliable company. Have just looked at the Wosp version here http://www.wosperformance.co.uk/products/starter-motors/applications/ and the model I need would appear to be an "LMS006", which is indeed shown as being "1.4KW" and "Denso". The Powerlite "RAC 102" looks to be 1KW... So just when I thought I was close to making a decision there is another contender. Anybody have any experience of the Wosp version, please? Thanks again Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thank you Roger. "Powerlite" appears to be a trade mark of Eurolec, in which case they are the same company. However I've been unable to find the appropriate starter motor on the link you kindly included as you only seem able to search by part number, not by application - and "RAC 102" doesn't seem to work. Cheers Tony Hello Tony look under powerlite. http://www.powerlite-units.com/products/stater-motors/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycharente Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Tony look under powerlite. http://www.powerlite-units.com/products/stater-motors/ Thank you Roger - looks like they don't sell them as "Eurolec" then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Tony Mine has powerlite on it and it was about £140 inc vat at the trade counter 2 years ago Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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