Graunching Noise From Prop Shaft Area

[elclem1]

How long since the box was last opened/restored/oil changed? I like the idea of the noise being the UJ, tricky things those pesky UJs, especially if they were not fitted correctly they wont last long!

[Kevo_6]

How long since the box was last opened/restored/oil changed? I like the idea of the noise being the UJ, tricky things those pesky UJs, especially if they were not fitted correctly they wont last long!

 

Hi Andy

 

The box was sorted Aug 2014, then it failed again Aug 2015 after 1000 miles and now this Sept 2016 after 2000 miles with various sticky clutch problems in between, so in the last 2 years I've had the box out about 7 times all on me todd.

 

Still think the actual noise was the half needle roller jumping around in the cup of the UJ.

 

As Niall says the flakes of steel should not be in the box.

 

What is it about this time of year and gearbox's for me!!!

[TR NIALL]

Kev do a Flush with the Gearbox Oil and then replace with the Oil of your Choice and see how the Box preforms if you start having problems with Box or Overdrive it'll be Box out again.

[Kevo_6]

Kev do a Flush with the Gearbox Oil and then replace with the Oil of your Choice and see how the Box preforms if you start having problems with Box or Overdrive it'll be Box out again.

Thanks Niall, I think I'll give that a go.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Kevo_6

[aardvark]

Kev.

 

Sounds like you might benefit from making John's gearbox crane.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

PS hope you don't have to remove the box again.

[elclem1]

i hope you get it sorted out, I like the idea of flushing the box out, after all what do you have to lose? I suspect it has been well and truly bedded in. What oil are you using in it?

[Kevo_6]

i hope you get it sorted out, I like the idea of flushing the box out, after all what do you have to lose? I suspect it has been well and truly bedded in. What oil are you using in it?

Nothing to lose at all, I use Penrite GB40.

[Kevo_6]

A little update: -

 

Off to Proptech tomorrow morning to pick up my new drive shafts and they are putting on my new hubs (Bastuk ones from TR Shop) as well, they going to check my prop shaft and if OK they will put some new UJs in. We are staying nearby and then off to the NEC on Saturday.

 

I have flushed the gearbox through. So when the drivetrain is all back together, it's test drive time to see how the gearbox behaves, if it's still noisy it's gearbox out yet again.

 

I am umming and ahhring whether to drop the diff to rummage around that area and maybe clean and tart up the diff and fixings.

[RogerH]

Hi Kev,

you are certainly going through a hard time. Whilst the car is in bits then taking the diff off and sorting everything around it is a good idea.

 

I;ll be at the NEC on Saturday. See if we can bump into each other.

 

Fingers still crossed.

 

Roger

[Kevo_6]

Cheers Roger.

Will do, it's only another 4 nuts to undo.

We will look out for you.

Hi Kev,

you are certainly going through a hard time. Whilst the car is in bits then taking the diff off and sorting everything around it is a good idea.

 

I;ll be at the NEC on Saturday. See if we can bump into each other.

 

Fingers still crossed.

 

Roger

[astontr6]

Hi Kevo,

 

I would send the gearbox and overdrive unit to ORS in Sheffield for total rebuild! I would be reluctant to use anyone else as ORS manufacture their own parts especially the parts that if supplied by the other well known suppliers always are of dubious quality. 2 months ago, I rejected 45 lay shafts from one of these suppliers but his batch quantity was 100 so there are 55 soft lay shafts in use. I hope you have not got one of these? Lastly they only use European bearings, another well known problem area!

 

Bruce.

[Kevo_6]

Hi Kevo,

 

I would send the gearbox and overdrive unit to ORS in Sheffield for total rebuild! I would be reluctant to use anyone else as ORS manufacture their own parts especially the parts that if supplied by the other well known suppliers always are of dubious quality. 2 months ago, I rejected 45 lay shafts from one of these suppliers but his batch quantity was 100 so there are 55 soft lay shafts in use. I hope you have not got one of these? Lastly they only use European bearings, another well known problem area!

 

Bruce.

Thanks Bruce, very interesting. I will certainly consider my options.

[astontr6]

Kevo,

 

I would not drive your car without a full strip down of the gearbox and overdrive. Some of that swarf will be in the O/D unit and will damage the O/D pump etc. In the gearbox if its lay-shaft failure, you do not want the needle rollers flying round or thrust bearing washer failure as this can write the gearbox off? I have seen a similar situation with one of our group members, who did not heed our advice.

 

Bruce.

[Kevo_6]

Hi Bruce

All you say makes sense and I will heed your warning but unsure whether to take it back to the rebuilder who did it the 2 before ( its only done less than 1500 miles since it was last with him) or go as you suggest.

Oh well out with the box again. :-(

 

 

(null)

[Kevo_6]

One good thing today is that I've picked up my new drive shafts from Proptech and they've put my new hubs on but they need a week to recon my prop shaft. Well pleased, reasonable price and Martin was very helpful and a very nice bloke. Highly recommend Proptech.

 

(null)

[astontr6]

Kevo,

 

Looking at your reg. I suspect that it has an 'A' type overdrive fitted. This type of overdrive is known as slam engagement, unlike the 'J' type which is known as slipping clutch engagement. Which is lighter on the gearbox/overdrive, prop-shaft, diff mounts etc. It is very important that the UJs/ Splines are kept well greased with CV type grease as this extends their life.

 

Lastly, and this statement will draw a re-action from the Forum, only use Hypoid Oil, as the TR6 gearbox uses Hypoid gear form teeth and that's why BL recommended it. I know that people will say Laycock did not recommend its use but that was in the 1950s when asbestos linings were used and the recommended engine oil/gearbox was mono grade? The 'A' Type Overdrive was modified 5 times by the time it was fitted to the TR6. Also, regarding bronze bearings, the oil industry stopped using additives which attacked bronze bearings many years ago?

I cannot repeat on the Forum what the Technical Dept. of Millers stated when I asked this question as I would get warning points or be banned! My gearbox lasted 43 years before I got the whine in first, second and third, then go silent in top indicating that the lay-shaft was on the way out, a well known weak point. It had Hypoid in it, all its life? Go for the 3 needle roller bearing conversion on the lay gear as per the Stag Gearbox as this extends the life of the gearbox. ORS charge £70 extra for this conversion, if they can use your existing lay-gear..

 

Bruce.

[Kevo_6]

*** Update ***

New hubs, driveshafts and propshaft all put on and buttoned up. Done a service and went out this afternoon for my first spin since my difficulties as per this thread.

Everything started out OK but after about a 1/2 mile at the traffic lights, pulled away in 1st, graunch graunch, 2nd gear graunch graunch but fine in 3rd and 4th. Oh and the overdrive isn't working.

So I've started to take the box out again (arghh) few bolts and it will be out in the morning.

Just something I noticed with the solenoid, I can't push it up easily by hand, there's some strongish resistance. I could move it up down a few days ago but unsure if it was right then or now, anyway doesn't make much difference as it's going back to the rebuilder for the 3rd time in 3 years.

Still at least the clutch still works perfectly.

[astontr6]

Hi Kev,

 

Before the graunching noise came? Did your gearbox whine in 1st, 2nd & 3rd and then go silent in 4th?

 

Bruce.

[Kevo_6]

Hi Kev,

 

Before the graunching noise came? Did your gearbox whine in 1st, 2nd & 3rd and then go silent in 4th?

 

Bruce.

Hi Bruce

Yes it did and has been a bit whiney, sounded like an old lorry from the 50s.

[astontr6]

Kev,

 

When you strip the gearbox look at the lay gear needle rollers and lay shaft and thrusts. This is where I suspect your problem lies and if it is go for the 3 needle roller bearing mod as per Stag. If you go to ORS he can sometimes salvage the lay gear and use this part to mod to 3 bearings. The lay shaft! I had a bad experience last Sept/Oct when my gearbox/ overdrive was taken out because of whining in the lower gears! I knew that the lay shaft was on the way out so I went to Moss for a new one. But when I was given a new one in the shop there, I did the file test for hardness, a known problem area? and it was soft?????? and so were the other 40 odd in stock out of a batch of 100. You state that your box was reconditioned did you get one of the other 50 odd that had already been sold????? You can use me for a reference if this is the case, send me a PM if required.

 

 

Bruce.

[Kevo_6]

Kev,

 

When you strip the gearbox look at the lay gear needle rollers and lay shaft and thrusts. This is where I suspect your problem lies and if it is go for the 3 needle roller bearing mod as per Stag. If you go to ORS he can sometimes salvage the lay gear and use this part to mod to 3 bearings. The lay shaft! I had a bad experience last Sept/Oct when my gearbox/ overdrive was taken out because of whining in the lower gears! I knew that the lay shaft was on the way out so I went to Moss for a new one. But when I was given a new one in the shop there, I did the file test for hardness, a known problem area? and it was soft?????? and so were the other 40 odd in stock out of a batch of 100. You state that your box was reconditioned did you get one of the other 50 odd that had already been sold????? You can use me for a reference if this is the case, send me a PM if required.

 

 

Bruce.

Thanks Bruce

 

Well its out (it doesn't get any lighter the more you do it). I've taken the top cover off but nothing staring out at me, I'll strip it down a bit more this afternoon. One thing I was particularly happy with was the clutch bearing, carrier etc. absolutely doesn't show any signs of wear.

[RogerH]

Thanks Bruce

 

Well its out (it doesn't get any lighter the more you do it). I've taken the top cover off but nothing staring out at me, I'll strip it down a bit more this afternoon. One thing I was particularly happy with was the clutch bearing, carrier etc. absolutely doesn't show any signs of wear.

you haven't been using it then

 

Roger

[Kevo_6]

No Roger I've not, 1st test run.

How's your gearbox, is back in and working?

 

(null)

[RogerH]

Hi Kev,

gearbox all in - I'm so confident that everything is fitted and nailed down.

 

Sadly I have no gearbox oil - it will be here tomorrow.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Roger

[Kevo_6]

Hi Kev,

gearbox all in - I'm so confident that everything is fitted and nailed down.

 

Sadly I have no gearbox oil - it will be here tomorrow.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Roger

Hi Roger

 

Are you using Penrite GB40 and if so where's it coming from.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Kevo_6