Fitting (or not) TR Shop exhaust

[McMuttley]

I have been trying to fit my TR Shop / Phoenix exhaust system without success.

 

It contains a Phoenix extractor – fitted OK, a short step down pipe that follows the chassis line OK (ish) and stops just short of the cruciform ......and then two pipes with silencers, first a long and then short.

 

I can get it so that the second (longer) pipe exits the cruciform pretty central, as shown in the pics. But then it heads off in the direction of the rear chassis on the passenger side, such that the second (rearmost) silencer clashes with the chassis big time, as in overlaps.

 

Does anyone have a pic of the same system installed ?

 

It seems as if there is a kink missing in the first (longer) pipe about 6 inches after the cruciform that would have turned the remainder of the system more rearward than sideways (position about alongside the closest end of the rubber map in the pic below). Also, the two boxes sit straight ‘in-line’, ie, there is no bend between them.

 

There is ample space between the exhaust and diff such that if it were to turn more centrally by up to 2” at the rear of the first longer box then it might solve the issue.

 

I appreciate that on these cars some fettling is required, but I have asked all the neighbours and none of them have an exhaust system mandrel bending widget and jig on them.

 

Is this degree of modification expected? It seems as if this system were designed for a much wider car ?

 

My dream of getting this freekin car running seems to go one step forwards and 3 back !

 

A supposedly simple bracket and exhaust fitting job has left me with a car with no seats, carpets, tunnel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

For info

 

An original front silencer has straight pipe through cruciform, with a short joggle down just before it enters the box to drop the silencer from the floor by about 1/2". Rear silencer has an angled front inlet pipe to aim the silencer parallel with the chassis and pick up at the rear exhaust mounting bracket onto the tail pipe.

 

The system you have seems the be missing the angled inlet pipe in the rear silencer.

 

What if you fit the front silencer 180 degrees about, does that give the sideways 'kink' you are after?

If not...

Shove it up the suppliers, pipe may be your solution.

 

Will crawl under my car tomorrow and photo the standard Langford system I have.

 

Peter W

 

PS I did all this with Falcon Stainless Exhausts some 25 years ago. I took John Davis's TR3A (VYP 88) to them in Notingham and spent the day getting an exhaust and patterns made to fit a real car. That excercise was to get rid of the customer complaints not unlike yours. You do wonder how many, if any of the exhaust makers have ever attempted to fit their product.

[Drewmotty]

Could it be that the pipe between the manifold and front silencer should be fitted the other way around?

[Lebro]

Your front (link) pipe looks to be the correct way round, I think there should be more of a bend between the two boxes.

 

Bob.

[Ian Vincent]

Austin,

 

I made up an exhaust system using a Phoenix extractor and various bits of pipe from a supplier whose name I can't remember. One of them was a bend of about 150 to 165 degrees and it looks like that would solve your problem. Apologies but I'm not at home at the moment so I can't look up the name of the supplier.

 

Rgds Ian

[Lebro]

By the way my Phoenix manifold, & the two SS "standard" boxes , & link pipe all came from the TR shop, & all fit OK.

I will take a photo today & post.

 

Bob.

[McMuttley]

Thanks all, the front pipe is ok. A kink between the two silencers would help, but on its own would not solve the problem as the first silencer is already too close to the chassis.

 

Will see what TR Shop have to say.

[RobH]

I also have a TR shop s/s system but with standard manifold pipe. I had to rotate the front box a bit to make things line up and get clearance. There isn't much of an angle between the two boxes as you can see. I fitted it years ago so can't really remember the details now, unfortunately.

Edited April 25, 2016 by RobH

[Lebro]

Hope this helps. 1st pic shows angle between silencers, 2ns shows the same plus slight twist to front box to avoid chassis (it's close), 3rd pic shows closeness to chassis better.

 

Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Mud on tyres is from yesterdays drive it day to Redhill aerodrome & it's soggy field !

Edited April 25, 2016 by Lebro

[McMuttley]

Thanks Bob, your first silencer is definitely at less of an angle to mine, where as you can see, the silencer is heading straight for the chassis at an angle, rather than being almost parrallel.

 

 

The comparison with the old pipe shows the amount of turn that isn't present

 

 

 

I reckon it needs kink in the pipe where the arrow is on the tube so that the end of the silencer is up to circa 2" further over. This might also negate the absence of a kink between the silencers. I did try the first tube 180 degrees over, but then it fouls with the floor of the car. A slight tilt wouldn't bring about any meaningful change in direction.

 

 

 

TR Shop are looking into it - is it possible that the lack of a bend in the front silencer means it is for a wider TR4 chassis ?

Edited April 25, 2016 by McMuttley

[Lebro]

Nice safety boots

 

It would seem that the TR shop are getting them from a different source. my rear box has a sideways wiggle in it's outlet pipe (see photo) yours clearly has not.

 

Bob.

[McMuttley]

Yes, you have a rear box that is like this - FSTH28

 

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/silencer-exhaust-stainless-steel-fsth28.html

 

There is both a wiggle in the tailpipe and a definite angle to the pipe connecting the two boxes.

 

However, mine is labeled TH28, but is very different - straight front and back.

 

FSTH28 would help, but I think the front silencer is already too close to the chassis to avoid contact being made, so would still need a kink of some form.

[Ian Vincent]

Austin,

 

I don't know what parts he used but when Menno was rebuilding his 3a he had to get the corner cut off one of his silencer boxes and it welded back up to prevent the box clashing with the chassis. It might be worth asking him what parts he was using and going down the same route

 

Rgds Ian

[ianc]

The TR4 chassis is basically a TR3 chassis and the rails are the same distance apart as on TR3, so there's the same amount of space (or lack of space!) for the exhaust on both sidescreen and TR4 models.

The rear axle is wider, and the front suspension is built out on box sections welded to the TR3 chassis.

The supports for the bodywork are extended outwards for the TR4.

Ian Cornish

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Thanks Bob, your first silencer is definitely at less of an angle to mine, where as you can see, the silencer is heading straight for the chassis at an angle, rather than being almost parrallel.

 

 

The comparison with the old pipe shows the amount of turn that isn't present

 

 

 

I reckon it needs kink in the pipe where the arrow is on the tube so that the end of the silencer is up to circa 2" further over. This might also negate the absence of a kink between the silencers. I did try the first tube 180 degrees over, but then it fouls with the floor of the car. A slight tilt wouldn't bring about any meaningful change in direction.

 

 

 

TR Shop are looking into it - is it possible that the lack of a bend in the front silencer means it is for a wider TR4 chassis ?

Your front silencer is a copy of the Harmo SU331 mild steel item that did not fit very well. This is because the front pipe 'jiggle' is in the wrong place. That is how Harmo made them for many years and we all had to suffer knocking exhausts. QuikFit would refuse to fit the system, even though it was available from their stocks, as they got fed up with TR owners moaning.

 

I say again, my favourite is the the old Triumph Tune TT5001 system, there is a stainless version too FS5001

 

Peter W

[McMuttley]

Hi Peter,

 

FS5001 - had a look on the internet, two parts, single (narrow) silencer.

 

I have the following pipe as the first off the (phoenix) extractor, which stops just in front of the cruciform - where the TR4 hanger is. Would the FS5001 system connect into this and run straight through the cruciform, or does it still need 'jiggle' bending into it ?

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by McMuttley

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

 

 

 

 

 

Question. What exhaust system did you have originally and why are you changing it?

 

1.The old pipe next to your new front silencer in the photo above looks suspciously like a first pipe of the 2 piece FS5001 system. It looks as though the section that joins at the cruciform is swelled out to fit over the front link pipe.

 

2.The FS 5001 front pipe was designed and sized to simply replace a standard exhaust rear 2 silencers with a single pipe and longer silencer that installs rear of the axle line. No adaptors, no faffing. ie You removed the standard exhaust two rear silencers from the cruciform/gearbox mount rearward and replaced it with FS 5001. Clamping at the gearbox as standard, standard rubber strap at the rear, and identical standard pipe size.

 

3. Does your old length of through the cruciform pipe (in photo above) fit your new link pipe? If so a silencer like the one in TT/FS 5001 could be sourced and used. - Job done. It looks as if the single rear box you have been supplied in the new system could even be used, but for my use, too noisey.

 

4. From my evaluation. The jiggle is there to drop the silencer away from the floor as the system exits the cruciform. Get rid of the silencer where the pipe exits the cruciform and the jiggle is not needed.

 

My priorities for a TR exhaust are low noise from the exhaust tone, so I do not get headaches on long runs and the pipework not touching anything causing NVH (noise vibration or harshness).

 

Cheers

Peter W

 

PS What happened to your handbrake cable? Looks like it exits the rear bulkhead.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[McMuttley]

Hi Peter

 

Answer 2

The handbrake is a Revington (mini-based) prop tunnel mounted job - very convenient

 

Answer 1

The previous exhaust system is now in the lean-to as it was, if you recall, an olde Chestnut House/GranFarbrications/TRE beast/smoke stacks of Mordor, with 4 individual extractor pipes that loosely sat in a fwd facing collector that spewed polution into the engine bay if you were doing less than 60mph (easy in suburban sarf landan).

 

The individual extractor pipes were quite long

 

.....and used a Saturn 5 booster from the collector point forward

 

 

It sounds like the GT FS5001 system would need to be fettled to fit.

 

I have, however, worked out the issue with the new system and will speak to TR Shop to see what we can do and whether i just have a dodgy jiggle.

 

I shall demonstrate using this sophisticated kitchen worktop jig assembly.

 

The image below simulates a view from above the car.

 

The wooden spoon vector indicator on the left shows how the exhaust would, if installed as meant to, career off towards the left to chassis rail, leaving no opportunity for the second box to recover. TR Shop have some rear boxes with more of a turn, but the damage is done by the main tube.

 

The indicator on the right, and the position of the exhaust, show, that if flipped over 180 degrees, it would point to the rear and fit fine.

 

 

However, it isn't so simple, as the following side elevation illustrates.

 

By turning the exhaust over, the 'jiggle' that takes the silencer down about 1cm to avoid the lower body, would now taking the silencer up and they jam severley.

 

 

As I see it, the options are:

• see if TR Shop have one that jiggles the right way (I may have a dud)
• just get the pipe bent locally by 5 degree and seek to ensure that it doesn't move in the vertical plane
• switch to a phoenix single pipe system - but like you I am trying to reduce noise (the olde system boomed with the hard top on and if you hadn't died of carbon monoxide by the end of the trip, you were temporarily deaf)
• find a way of fitting an alternative such as the 5001 box to the now coated and fitted phoenix extractor to get more of a 'rasp' than a 'boom' noise. However, the problem here is that if the pipes need tweaking, I would have to trailer the car to the nearest exhaust man.

Oh the joys ....

Edited April 27, 2016 by McMuttley

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Try adding an extension to the tail pipe to take the exit beyond the rear overriders - works on my car but gashes your leg if you walk too close in the garage.

 

and before you say it.... yes it is an original Standard Triumph exhaust finisher, from Doves at Green Lane in 1972 part number 114191.

 

 

 

Peter W

 

 

[McMuttley]

Peter, the last time I saw your tail it looked like this

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by McMuttley