fuel Ethanol in fuel

[PhilipB]

Discussion continues re the effects of ethanol in fuel.

 

The current issue (Issue 2 2016) of the FBHVC magazine contains notice that Belgium is shortly to increase the amount of ethanol in fuel to 10%. Although not many UK members will pass through Belgium and fill up, the article also sets out the effects of ethanol and recommends additives that are said to counter its corrosive effects, which are present even at 5%

 

Members Pages/Newsletter archive

Issue 2, 2016,

http://fbhvc.co.uk/members-pages/newsletter-archive/

 

Note the recommendations for materials that are and are not recommended for use with fuels containing ethanol

 

There is more information from the FBHVC Home page under "Legislation and Fuels/Fuel information"

 

Phil

[Guest]

There is a (real) way to get avoid this problem: use the ferry to the Hook of Holland! One single Dutch oil and fuel

company sells 102 RON without ethanol.

 

Here's their website in English + locations where you can find the Performance 102.

 

http://competition102.com/en/

 

Menno

[TriumphV8]

We have already 5% in the fuel except its ARAL Ultimate or Shell V-Power.

In my opinion to much noise about a problem that does not exist.

I fill into the tank what I get and only over winter I look for Ultimate because

E takes water out of the air and E10 might cause more corrosion in the tank

 

Brasilians use E80 and are still alife!!!

[Don H.]

Our normal fuel in the US is 15% ethanol (E15) and in some places, like Illinois, the state adjacent to me, a big corn-growing state and home to the giant ag company ADM, one can find 85% ethanol fuel (E85).

 

If one looks and pays a little more, it's possible to find 100% petrol (no ethanol). Boat marinas are a common source. A website here tracks places that sell pure gas (http://pure-gas.org/). Octane rating, using the US-specific AKI of (R+M)/2 is typically 90 or so.

 

I filled one of my 20L jerrycans last week on a trip outside my city, where pure petrol is not allowed to be sold due to air pollution regulations. Some of these petrol stations are kind of sketchy, and some are perfectly normal branded stations near major lakes. Ethanol free can be 50% to 100% higher than E15, so it's a good premium. I use it in my mower, my motorbike, and sometimes in the TR (if the car's going to be standing).

 

There are a number of ethanol-protecting additives in the US market. Little technical data on any of them -- they're all sold with a bit of a snake oil approach, unfortunately. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

The FBHVC newsletter seems to be a little gloomy and doomy about ethanol. Frankly, it hasn't been the dreadful change feared over here, although it's not benign either. One wonders if a fee to use the FBHVC-approved logo on the three brands of snake oil presented had anything to do with the editorial content, which was light on technical methods used for testing and on other offerings in the market.

[Peter Cobbold]

I fill the tank over winter to minimise the amount of water vapour that gets sucked into the airspace with atmospheric pressure swings. Also it means most of the metal surface is exposed to corrosion inhibitors present in all fuels.But I keep an eye on the carb flaot chamber...but it looks OK.

 

The change to 10% may result in more vapour locking referred to by FBHVC. However the Reid Vapour Pressure of any petrol is set by British Standard and is defined at 38C. So vapour pressure problems might arise only if the fuel is allowed to heat up above that temperature.

Otherwise I am not too worried.

 

But the reason for Belgium doing this is highly suspect. The scientifc argument for using ethanol as a fuel additivel is not valid

http://bioscience.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/7/593.full

"" Conclusions The use of ethanol as a substitute for gasoline proved to be neither a sustainable nor an environmentally friendly option, considering ecological footprint values, and both net energy and CO₂ offset considerations seemed relatively unimportant compared to the ecological footprint. As revealed by the ecological footprint approach, the direct and indirect environmental impacts of growing, harvesting, and converting biomass to ethanol far exceed any value in developing this alternative energy resource on a large scale. ""

In addition it the above, the diversion of corn to ethanol production inflated global food prices, and put hundreds of millions more into food poverty.

http://necsi.edu/research/social/foodprices/foodfaq/

So Belgium is just adding to the problem. It is not a green stance.

 

As for UK growing its own ethanol crops - we already import 40% of our food, and expected to rise. It wont happen.

( unless EU is planning to follow Belgium?)

 

Peter

Edited April 21, 2016 by Peter Cobbold

[Clarkey]

We have already 5% in the fuel except its ARAL Ultimate or Shell V-Power.

In my opinion to much noise about a problem that does not exist.

I fill into the tank what I get and only over winter I look for Ultimate because

E takes water out of the air and E10 might cause more corrosion in the tank

 

Brasilians use E80 and are still alife!!!

Sorry to disappoint you but V power has ethanol in

Esso supreme unleaded is also ethanol free if it has come from an Esso terminal .

E will drop out of the fuel if there is water present and then you get a water/ ethanol mix at the bottom of the tank(phase separation )

also this will have a slight affect on the ron rating of the mix as the base petrol is at a lower ron rating and the Ethanol is used to increase it to the correct ron number for the spec.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Clarkey

[TriumphV8]

Interesting!

The information of E free V-power was passed from the German TR Registers

chief of relations to companies and government groups.

 

Maybe they mix different things for different countries?

[jean]

Peter, Belgian politcians are completely stupid and they don't know what to do to cover their deficit. So in 1 year they increased the price for household electric supply by 50%.

 

The governement probably makes more money on ethanol than on regular fuel, buy it cheap and tax it high so no one will notice, they don't care about the consequences.

Anyhow burning the forests that produce our oxygen in order to produce ethanol to safe the globe is the top of human stupidity, but some greedy investors will probably draw huge profits out of it.

 

Time must have come to start from scratch.