Sluggish starter motor

[bullstreetboy]

Guys

 

I've stripped the motor and didn't detect any obvious fault . Not really surprising as my electronics expertise is in a narrow band running at 4.2 Kelvin( we use copper as a superb insulator)! It's hard to get my head around room temperature physics now.

 

Here is a link that some of you may find enlightening :- http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/lucascourse2.pdf

 

It seems to me that the commutator may be have the problem.

 

I'll think I'll bin the whole thing unless one of you guys ......

 

Ran the car yesterday, after re-setting the ignition by "ear" on the Webers, to Newton Abbot and Teignmouth and ignition pinking up the climb out of Teignmouth, 4 degrees back now on the thumb wheel. It's just trial and error again.

 

Barry

Edited October 8, 2015 by bullstreetboy

[Hamish]

Hi

This summer I bought a '59 Tr3 (a)

I saw this post as it was progressing with interest.

I now am considering a hi torque starter as since my head gasket replacement and a few miles on the clock . I find the starter slow.

I have had the battery checked -all good and checked the earths and done a direct battery to starter feed. No changes.

Whilst I have taken the stater off I can't remove it from the car ( due to 4 branch exhaust and different inlet) block drain tap etc.

Thus it looks like I'll need to undo some of these restrictions !!!

 

I have seen that Rimmer bros have a deal on these together with a voucher is a good deal.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GEU4412UR

 

I don't do electrickery so can someone tell me if I keep the solenoid with these hi torque motors ?

 

Thank

H

[Lebro]

These are pre-engage starters, & have their own solenoid. this not only pre-engages the bendix, but also connects the motor to 12V.

2 Choices - use existing solenoid as is, but add a link wire from main terminal on the starter to the smaller push on one.

or, move the main battery cable from one terminal of your old solenoid to the other, so it is connected to the main starter cable, then remove, & extend the small wire on the old solenoid, & connect it now to the push on terminal on the new starter. ( & don't fit the link wire above.)

 

Bob.

[Hamish]

Thanks bob. Sounds like the link wire is best option.

Car won't even start today to get to the redrose TR meet :-(

Seems to have flattened everything trying the very slow turn over hoping it would catch ?!?!?

Only side lights have faint glow no headlights etc.

The amps meter goes neg with just ignition on with just very bright ign light on. Is this right ?

It's neg earth but still with dynamo.

It's just like a dead battery but 2 places ( that would want to sell me one !!) said it's fine ??

This started few hundred miles after head gasket replacement. When it ran perfectly ??

Hoping new starter is cure ?!

H

[RogerH]

Hi Hamish,

are you sure it is the motor and not the battery.

Also when you checked the earth straps are the contact surfaces clean metal (NO paint etc).

Is the extra earth cable - battery direct to S/mptor - a decent size (typical braided earth strap)

 

Roger

[Hamish]

Hi Roger.

I have tried various tips given previously.

Battery was tested by kwikfit and halfords x2 fitting centres and tested as good.

Yes scraped away paint on earths (even though they worked before) to shiny metatarsal on both surfaces.

Battery on charge for a few days then:-

Bypassed the solenoid with jump lead.

Also tried (temp) a braided earth strap battery to rocker cover post.

Turned over very slowly. Engine tried to catch couple times just not enough to start.

Until the starter ground to a halt and the lights didn't work after.

Battery is 68AH couple years old and has been working fine as has the car.

I now have the battery (on car) connected to an older optimate III battery conditioner that I did use on my bike. A bit undersized but worked with my previous SP250.

That I also had to get new starter for just before I sold it !!!!

The pain in the b#m is swapping the starters is so involved.

H

[Hamish]

Hi all

Thought I'd give an update to my starter issues following all your help.

I tested the battery and it was showing more than 13v

So bought a hi torque starter from Rimmer bros. Good price and great delivery.

I took off the carbs and inlet manifold.

I was then stuck for the sake of about a cm by the block drain tap.

So drained car removed tap. This allowed the starter to come out.

The new starter has a fixed top bolt and I struggled for ages trying to do the nut up.

Until I realised you can turn the starter mounting plate 180 deg and slide an original bolt in before re connecting the plate.

This allow you to spanner the bolt whilst just holding the nut.

The fixed bolt is now at the bottom where access is far easier

Job done and all works wonderfully.

[RogerH]

Hi Hamish,

good result. A lot of work but now you can remove the SM without all the fuss.

 

When doing mine I found using a socket on a UJ and long extension gave me enough access from below - car on ramps.
However when in a grassy field (camping) and just a simple jack the above was no good.

I removed the Tunnel carpet and cut an access hole in the tunnel. This made access a doddle. It now has a large floor rubber bung in place.

 

Roger

[Hamish]

Thanks Roger

But I do hope it's a long term fit and forget fix !!!

[Graham Harris]

I hope you remembered to lock tight the bolts for the mounting plate, they take all the torque from the starter and will come loose if not locked in

 

Graham

[Hamish]

Hi graham

Yes had spotted that tip on the forum

H

[oldtuckunder]

Thought I'd add to an existing thread rather than start an almost identical one about a failing bendix inertia starter.

 

Finally got the competition engine installed and back in the Vitesse and was looking to get to starting point yesterday evening, but as always things take longer than expected, so by time oil system primed, and then distributor refitted it was running a bit late so thought I'd just fully prime the oil system on the starter with plugs out and leave the actual fire up until today. Fitted new battery which was a replacement supplied in early feb under warranty as I had noticed towards the end of last season that it was struggling to start when hot, and the battery supplier had tested and said it was below par for a less than 12 month old battery (we will skip the fact that the first replacement was DOA!)

 

It span over OK'ish with plugs out maybe not as fast as expected but given new rings shells etc. I didn't worry much and as oil pressure came up to 50+ cranking I called it quits for the day.

 

Today, Plugs in, but left ignition and fuel off and decided to just give it one more spin to prime the oil again before going for the start.

 

Groan, Groan, Gro..an, Gro....n, Gr..........

 

Bugg.r must have flattened the battery more than I thought yesterday, but as its fairly small it doesn't take too much to do that.

 

Spare good battery and jump leads, Groan, Groan, Gro..an, Gro....n, Gr..........

 

Check connections, check earth strap, rig extra earth from battery direct to starter, all to no avail Groan, Groan, Gro..an, Gro....n, Gr..........

 

Take live feed direct to starter, still no better, so it must be starter motor.

 

Had an old spare inertia starter that came off a running engine many moons ago, but no idea if any good. But as I haven't fitted the transmission tunnel yet only about a 5 min job to swap, after testing that the replacement actually span and threw the bendix gear.

 

Groan, Groan, Gro..an, Gro....n, Gr..........

 

Live feed direct plus additional earth Groan, Groan, Gro..an, Gro....n, Gr..........

 

Plugs out, spins over OK, well as good as expected.

 

So have ordered the High Torque unit that I have always put off buying whilst the inertia did the job.

 

Will see Wednesday if it solves the problem!

 

Alan