REJones Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 This topic seems to have expanded from the low mileage car at Camberley to a general discussion about inflated prices for TR4s. I have finally bought a TR4a(red with surrey top, wws,o/d, and restored) after 6 months of looking. There are very few good cars out there and most seem to be advertised by dealers. You therefore have to pay dealer prices. In my experience you will have to wait a long time for a "private" car and even longer for a good original car. My TR4a was bought from Camberley classics about 3 weeks ago and I have seen the low mileage TR4a, and it looked fantastic to me. I cannot comment on whether the car has been resprayed, but I wonder whether this should have a major impact on the price. In one of the current classic car magazines there is an advert for a low mileage(28,000 miles?)TR6. The car is advertised as "original" but has been resprayed. It is yours for £29,000, so maybe the TR4a isn't too far off. At the end of the day a car is worth what people are prepared to pay. Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Horner Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Yes, it's a crying shame. It's middle men these days taking commission who make all the money- percentages are insidious - whether that's estate agents, financial advisors, pension companies, fund managers or whatever. They bleed things dry and percentages rarely reflect time and effort. My kids will have to inherit a classic in order afford one - just like houses. High priced fully restored cars don't do it for me. Completely redoing the interior is the ultimate sin in my view- regardless how impressive the results. So many of these high priced cars are pimped up beyond belief and that's what saddens me most. The twerps that buy them at such inflated prices must want them to look shiny new. How many honest, well worn interiors have been sacrificed in this regard? I know many interiors are past saving and many of us buy a car that has been retrimmed but it's still a shame. Mind, I still wouldn't pay the price for this car even if it is as original as stated! Edited February 12, 2014 by Bob Horner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 "At the end of the day a car is worth what people are prepared to pay" It's certainly worth that to the seller, but it may not be worth that to the buyer. There's an old saying about share trading that you buy shares in the hope that a bigger fool comes along and wants to pay more. The trouble is that at some point the shares are bought by the biggest fool of all - and he has to sell at a loss. That's when the market goes into reverse. I wonder if the classic car market is nearing that point. I agree with the comment that redoing interiors is the ultimate sin - it always looks wrong. The red TR4A at the forthcoming auction looks very nice apart from the interior which looks more like a Stag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Based on the above advice, I have decided to retain the interior of my TR6. Anybody want to buy a well used TR6? Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signalredshaker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 That should get the concours judges hyperventilating at Harrogate.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I suppose most of the parts needed to restore that interior are no longer available even from after market manufacturers. The thing that caught my eye about the Camberley TR4A was the fact that the interior was exactly as I remember they were, and that's part of the classic car experience. I've seen plenty of cars with massive great modern seats shoe-horned in with head restraints and stuff like that but it looks wrong and - as I'm 6'3" - it makes the car unusable. Even when people restore seats they seem to go overboard on the padding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well, my 4A was ground-up restored a few years ago now, very professionally with all the usual useful mods & with £25000 of receipts! That did not include the guys time spread over 9 years! I bought it 6 years ago, not long after restoration, for considerably less than the receipts figure. So, what would you need to pay today? Well, it is insured for £26500 & I reckon it is certainly worth that, if not more. Not quite concours but not far off. As somebody said, they are not making any more of these cars & full restoration costs a fortune. Add profit for a dealer & you have a £30K price tag! Incidentally I was offered £25K by a well-known dealer nearly 2 years ago! As for slowing down I can tell you that the vintage & classic market is still very buoyant. I do some part- time work for a very good restoration company, who have orders well into 2015 the last time I looked! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 The thing that caught my eye about the Camberley TR4A was the fact that the interior was exactly as I remember they were Despite all the cynicism on this thread about outrageously high TR prices this statement is absolutely correct. I challenge anybody to put up a picture of a truly correct 4A 'mint' interior restored or otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Guys, I bought the blue TR4A that Camberley currently have for sale at off the second owner.... It is a very original low mileage car in stunning condition.....It was detailed by the owner that bought it off me....by that company. The car had actually been "lacquered" over the original paintwork although the lady (86 years old) I bought it from (it was her dad's from new) was adamant that the paintwork was original - it wasn't but I didnt have the heart to disagree with her as she was sentimentally attached to the car as you would expect. It had also been undersealed by her father to protect it from any salt or water ingress.... The inside was stunning and totally original although it looked like it had been restored - it hadn't... In my opinion the retail value of the car is £30k now - the PO spent a fair bit on it... It is stunning and the panel fit is spot on, so anyone who says that they came out of the factory with "poor" panel fit needs to look closely at this car as they didn't...and its only normally people with cars with poor fitting panels that say this! I am available if anyone wants to know anymore about this vehicle.... It is lovely but £40k seems OTT to me.... Oh and if anyone is interested I have a Signal Red TR4A nearing completion with Surrey & O/D will be circa £25k Regards Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I see the red TR4A at Silverstone Auctions was unsold. I suppose this means it didn't make its reserve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 The estimate was £31-35K, which with buyer's commission of 12.5%+vat equates to £35,650 - 40,250. Reserve would generally not be too far shy of the lower estimate. That's an awful lot of spondoolahs for a significantly unoriginal detail presentation - it's usually only cars of exceedingly original looking presentation that make top notch money. Deviations from the original, no matter how attractive they might seem, tend to detract from resale value. Plus, it's an auction, if something mechanical and expensive goes bang in a couple of hundred miles' time, you're unlikely to be looking at a potential warranty claim situation. Whistle down the wind. Less protection than a private sale. I'd reckon that any established classic dealer would be very pleased indeed to make as much as £30K - for a TR4A with an unoriginal presentation, and no pretensions to a particular individual history of distinction. Plus, of course, said dealer would doubtless be offering some sort of warranty to uphold his hard earned reputation. I'm not exactly surprised if this very good looking red beastie didn't achieve an optimistic estimate. Just my opinion, of course. Cheers Alec Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ultimately, the cars are either sold for a realistic price or taken off the market. Dealers will obviously try to inflate the price and sometimes this comes off reflecting a new high and a new mark that other vendors will aim at. Anyone recall the pale blue TR5 for sale at a dealership in Sussex a few years ago for £49,995? It did go but I don't know at what price. Can't see the dealer taking less than £42,000 though. The point is that at the time absolute top dollar for a mint 5 was about £20 -£22.5k privately and maybe £28k dealer. After the one above moved on 5 prices became insane and if the 4a moves on from Camberley, I expect asking prices of 4 & 4a to hit the low 30s from dealers and the high 20s privately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ultimately, the cars are either sold for a realistic price or taken off the market. Dealers will obviously try to inflate the price and sometimes this comes off reflecting a new high and a new mark that other vendors will aim at. Anyone recall the pale blue TR5 for sale at a dealership in Sussex a few years ago for £49,995? It did go but I don't know at what price. Can't see the dealer taking less than £42,000 though. The point is that at the time absolute top dollar for a mint 5 was about £20 -£22.5k privately and maybe £28k dealer. After the one above moved on 5 prices became insane and if the 4a moves on from Camberley, I expect asking prices of 4 & 4a to hit the low 30s from dealers and the high 20s privately. The pale blue one you are on about was a multiple concours winning car and AFIK changed hands a couple of times since for around the same money.It was originally owned by one of our local members. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's interesting, Stuart. It probably proves the point that an exceptional car can fetch a massive premium over normal price and that a rising tide lifts all ships. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 That's interesting, Stuart. It probably proves the point that an exceptional car can fetch a massive premium over normal price and that a rising tide lifts all ships. An exceptional car yes but unfortunately most of the high priced ones I have seen lately arent anywhere near that. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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