TRTOM2498PI Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Michael, Hope you are well. ? What is your e-mail address, I have something you & Clive may be interested in. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 " So in reliably terms which wins irs or live ? " What exactly has IRS got to do with the price of eggs ? Now you really have lost me, Neil . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 So in reliably terms which wins irs or live ? I had my first roll out in Road America last year in a TR6. From that experience I would say IRS is faster than live axle TR3/4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I had my first roll out in Road America last year in a TR6. From that experience I would say IRS is faster than live axle TR3/4. Exactly MM keep up Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 We were discussing 4 v 4A axles, IRS didn't come into the discussion . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The US export TR4a live axle shafts are the strongest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Big D on head off topic but the question still stands Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 In answer to your question reliability in IRS and Solid axle: both are adequate for road use but this is the Competition section . So powerful solid axle cars break the half shaft (specially the TR4 one, perhaps less often with improved TR4A solid axle half shafts) - and the hub which can also break In the IRS department the powerful cars also break the outer hub now solved by the Cosworth hub almost universally used by competeing 6 cylinder cars. I am going racing witth TR4 axle and I want reliability (not breaking hub or half shaft going round a corner at Xmph) and the purpose of this topic is to define what is safe against cost Any onther racers got an opinion/ experience? Regards Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Michael Do you not have the disused airfield close to you to test ? how's the oil fields going? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Michael, I've heard enough detailed observation over many years from Michelotti competitors to conclude that the 4A live axle, and its halfshaft in particular, is capable of withstanding rather more punishment than its TR4 predecessor. I can think of more than a few fluent cursings about TR4 axles, but I can't bring to mind much adverse comment re the later axle. That refers to both circuit and to rally stage. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Cher Neil, The airfield is now used as a test track and for the "Ferrari Experience" so is not freely available for testing or general use, The oil fields still have a lone nodding donkey, How's the water level? Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 You can say there is a kind of count down on the axle shafts Triumph uses. That's why I take them apart every year. They will break, the question is when. I hope to catch the initial crack before disaster happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) That suggests that it may be worth spending the 2Kplus that a new design axle and hub costs see attached images of the southwick conversion and below the BPA Engineering version I don't have an image of the Red Baron version - which is a new shaft and stronger hub If you look on Rimmer catalogue you can see the difference between the standard TR4 axle and the newer stronger TR4A version Still trying to make a rational decision Regards Michael Edited January 17, 2014 by MichaelH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) BPA look very good. Very similar to the Porsche 911 design. I go for that. Where to get? Link? Edited January 17, 2014 by MadMarx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 BPA Engineering. http://www.bpaengineering.com/ Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Well done Stuart you beat me by an hour. Just spoke to those who fitted the upgrade axles which indeed came from SPA totally redesigned and engineered in the TR4 axle,but afraid i was wrong on the price estimate . £3000 to £3500 [ must be still in builder mode ] but as Max said cheaper than a re build. ROY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hmmmm.....after reading those price values I'm thinking if I should calculate and redesign the TR4 axles for racing purpose. I'm getting to my desk and doing engineering stuff....needs a while until I come up with something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The actual cost of the axle set from BPA is £1938 pounds they also do a tweak on the axle by heating the axle in a controlled way they can get neg camber and toe inthe VAt @20% makes the whole job 2600 They still recommed that the axles are magnafluxed every yearNot as bad as suggestedI still think 4A axle and Red Baron Hubs are the balance of strength and cost- you have done for 5 yrs!Michael Edited January 17, 2014 by MichaelH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I've done 5 years but I'm a very careful driver and I always have the tickling feel in my neck when it comes to cornering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I started to design a new shaft for TR3/4 cars which has removed all the dangerous stuff. Hope in the end it can be made with reasonable cost. Cheers Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hi Chris, The IRS cars use the cosworth hub which seems to cope with 240? bhp - would it be possible to graft that onto a stronger half shaft. It seems that shaft failure is a problem but not as dangerous as hub failure where a wheel coming off makes an accident inevitable. The problem is that Triumph worked on a 100 bhp and now the race cars (TR4) have nearly twice that. Keep me posted with you developments, In the meantime I am going with TR4A shafts and RBR hubs, I spoke to Jo Willems the other day and I am just about to order some Hubs But I am all ears for alternatives! Regards Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it will take some month to get a production of. I keep posted. Cheers Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 When you take the axles out of the casing is there a standard way of marking right from left do you grind a "L" on one and and an "R" on the other and if so where? Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I use a oil resistant marker dye and write L and R on the shaft. I don't grind into the shaft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nyk330 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Michael, Lets see if we can get a deal? I order a set too. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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