Surrey top question

[TR Mitch]

I recently fitted a new Moss windscreen capping and have a question about the vinyl Surrey soft top panel fitting. The existing vinyl I have has the centre of front steel strips rivetted in place which adds to the overall thickness of the section you slide under the capping.

 

The capping fits really neatly with just a couple of mm gap along the front main part of the screen, widening slightly towards the edges (the Moss item a decent first time fit to my surprise). I don't really want to lever the front edge of the capping up too much and risk bending any of it so I wondered whether the pop rivets I have in the leading edge of my vinyl top are standard and should be there or not?

 

If they are just to keep the steel strip in place, then I might prefer to sew a bit of nylon thread in there rather than put up with the increased thickness of the strip due to the two rivets. I don't really want to lift the capping up 4-5mm to accommodate the rivets and wanted to ask how it should be fitted.

 

Many thanks!

 

[RogerH]

I'm suprised the cap fitted without fettling. I have bought two recently for two different screen frames and both have the pre-drilled holes apprx 3/16" to one side.

 

Anyhoo, the pops are not normal and shouldn't be required. It maybe that you have loose pockets for the metal strips.

You could replace the pops with bifurcated rivets that have a lower profile.

Or remove completely and sew a seam in as you suggested.

Or, insert wider strips.

The gap may still require adjustment for best fit, but this is easily done.

 

Roger

Edited April 23, 2012 by RogerH

[TR Mitch]

Many thanks for the quick reply Roger. Robin sold the car with a very handy "sunroof" version of the soft top with a clear panel in it, so I'd like to try and make it work without prising the capping up too far.

 

After the post on repro quality, I too was surprised it went in as easy as it did. Everything lined up perfectly although Moss say it's held in place by 9 rivets (I ordered 10), 11 are needed. Fortunately had some close enough to size in my toolbox.

[Tom Fremont]

Sounds like the wrong type of rivet. They should be flush at both ends, i.e. peened flat.

 

I don't suppose the MOSS capping has the ears for the snap at the ends does it?

 

Years ago I fitted a repro without ears and binned it once I found a decent original.

[TR Mitch]

Sounds like the wrong type of rivet. They should be flush at both ends, i.e. peened flat.

 

They are pop rivets someone has used, so no chance to peen them flat ;-(

 

I don't suppose the MOSS capping has the ears for the snap at the ends does it?

 

Yes, it does. They supplied the snap connector and screws with my order too.

Edited April 23, 2012 by TR Mitch

[Davidw]

Mitch, mine was a fabric surrey and the steel strips were simply a very tight fit into a sort of envelope or tube whcih was made up by stitching.

 

I gave up because it was an absolute swine to fit. If caught in the rain, by the time I'd got the damn' surrey on, all that5 was left to do was to open the doors and let the water out!

 

Some chaps have used the front hood handle fasteners & hood rail from a Sptfire with a hood screen header rail, which is much quicker apparently.

 

I went back to a folding hood.

[TR Mitch]

David, I like the backlight too much to switch to a folding hood. It really keeps the wind levels down at speed. I've had Mrs TR Mitch out in the rain whilst I time her fitting the soft top and she's got it down, like a driver swap in a race, to about 12.2 seconds

 

I want to keep the capping gap nice and tight as the whole original fixing method looks like a factory bodge anyway. I've seen the mods that can be done and might consider that, but the roof is only ever fitted for rare overnight parking outside or if the skies turn black when we've been out on a jolly.

[RogerH]

Hi TR Mitch,

as you say the rear backlight is too good to bin.

The design for the front end of the surrey soft top is as per the TR4 convertible roof. It is simplicity in the extreme but is very functional.

There have been horror stories of the top peeling away. This is always caused either due tiffy fitting or the mechanics were not right in the first place.

Once set up correctly it works well.

Fitting the roof in 12 seconds is very good!!!!!

Always carry a brolly. These can be popped down in the corners.

The TR4A or 5/6 head rail is an interesting mod but not necessary.

 

Roger

Edited April 27, 2012 by RogerH

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

The strips should be spring steel and riveted in the flap or they migrate. The correct rivet type is what the trim trade call 'smash together rivets' or snaps and caps. Moss supply these as part nos 565756 and 563032. They are still listed at 25 p each item. They are in the TR5/6 catalogue on the Surrey Top page. I am not sure of what they supply being 100% - order one pair and have a look. To fit you literally fit together and hit with a hammer while the other side is supported on a smooth metal plate. I use a lead or brass block.

 

I developed and re patterned weather equipment 35 years ago for TR2-3-4 and Surrey top, so know how close to original I demanded in product, fit and finish. Oxted trimming <<http://www.oxtedgroup.co.uk/>>used to supply the Surrey fabrics and these correct rivets were included as well as the hook and elastic. No doubt the bean counters of the major TR spares stockists have now got involved and removed such useful original frippery, and sourced away from high quality suppliers. Funny how the best quality product is demanded but the ownership still bray about how cheap they want to get something, without thought for quality or compromise. All too MG for words really.....

 

Cheers

Peter W

Edited April 27, 2012 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[littlejim]

If the picture attachment worked you should be able to see a couple of the rivets on my Moss Surrey (4A).

They are flat on both sides.

Fitting the flap(with the rivets in it) was almost impossible first go, it was so tight, but by about go number three I could push it right in.

Tight is better than loose I think.

I have problems at the other end getting the rear fittings into the backlight(?) because the surrey is so tight, have to do muscle building exercises first, with plenty of breaks to recover.

Edited April 27, 2012 by littlejim

[Tom Fremont]

I lubricate the gap under the capping with rubber/vinyl preservative, without which it's a real wrestling match. Except for X-country touring my soft top delivers nothing but peace of mind, from the boot . I think they're plug ugly too . For example:

[RogerH]

Hi LittleJim,

to help me fit the rear of my surrey top I use two 3" long spiggots that screw into the rear roof support.

This allows the rear roof support to get inserted into the rear screen holes.

Once the support is pushed into the apprx position the spiggots are removed to allow the screws to go in.

 

The 'h' frame adjuster nuts are fully slackened prior to fitting. Once screwed down the adjusters are tightened.

 

Roger

[Davidw]

Mitch, if you screw a long thread into the rear bar fittings where they going into the rear screen frame and then use nuts from inside it's much easier than farting about with those stupid thumbscrews and trying to feed up into the rail.

[TR Mitch]

Thanks for the tip David, the rear screws are already long threads with wingnuts, so I guess easier to fit as I can offer the hood sockets down through the holes and catch them with the long threads to pull them into place nicely.

 

Mrs TRM will have to get her sewing kit out later to stitch in the front securing steel strips for me ;-)

[Tony Millward]

Funny how the best quality product is demanded but the ownership still bray about how cheap they want to get something, without thought for quality or compromise. All too MG for words really.....

 

Cheers

Peter W

 

 

I find that a rather rude and arrogant statement Peter, I have read post's on the pricing of replacement parts and I see no 'braying' (implying that the 'ownership' are donkeys). I have read a few post's comparing prices which I thought were fair comment and I have read (and commented on), post's about high priced but **** quality parts being sold. Nowhere have I read that owners want high quality parts at rock bottom prices. What I expect, as do many others, is a decent quality part fit for purpose at a decent price...no more no less. If you think that this reply was a bit 'MG' then I suspect you are on the wrong forum.

 

annoyed from Perth!

[RogerH]

I understand peters concern about shock waves at high prices but fully suppport tonys points totally.

 

If an item is of good quality and cheap then excellent. If the same product happens to be expensive then sobeit, we still need the part.

However no matter what the cost if the item is not fit for purpose then the customer will not be happy.

 

It takes a lot of effort to reproduce our old items - so why not reproduce them to the same dimensions and shape rather than an approximate effigy.

Many parts are reproduced faithfully, why let the show down by selling duff parts.

 

 

Roger

[stuart]

With the new 3D printers around now there isnt really any excuse for parts that dont fit provided someone can come up with an original to take a copy from.

Stuart.

[Tom Fremont]

" The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has gone. " - sign in auto parts store in the '70s

 

I believe the low quality stuff owes its existence to a very price conscious market which is gradually becoming less so as the realities sink in. This cuts both ways, keeping a lid on prices while sowing mines in the path of rebuilders / restorers / owners. Forums like this contribute by identifying the best products and services to owners and ( to a far lesser degree in practice ) by exposing the bad ones. Much appreciated !