Dave.M Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi I'm looking at a TR5 this morning. I can't find the engine number to check it's authenticity. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Dave, and welcome ! Left hand side of the engine block, at the rear, just below the No 6 spark plug is a small lip or boss sticking out - the engine number is stamped on the upper horizontal face. This TR6 link may help - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/content--name-Triumph-TR6-Vehicle-Information and this one for numbers in general - http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/prefix1.htm Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave.M Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Dave, and welcome ! Left hand side of the engine block, at the rear, just below the No 6 spark plug is a small lip or boss sticking out - the engine number is stamped on the upper horizontal face. This TR6 link may help - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/content--name-Triumph-TR6-Vehicle-Information and this one for numbers in general - http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/prefix1.htm Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave.M Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Alec. Thanks for your reply. I thought that the small tab to the rear lefthand side of the block should have the engine identification number. The car in question has a tab with an engineered top face, no number. The vendor sugests that the number may have been 'skimmed' off during rebuild. What, in your opinion, is the best way forward. There is no reason to expect that the engine and chassis don't belong to each other. I would, however, like to know for sure. Future purchasers may not be as trusting as I. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 There is normally no need to "skim" the part of the engine block that contains the stamped in Engine number, this is normally done if the engine is not the correct one for the car to disguise the fact that it has been changed - cynical I know but it is probably a saloon car block or non TR5 type block........ Original engine numbers are important for authenticity especially on TR5's so treat with caution or adjust the price accordingly.... Regards Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Be careful. There is a professional engine builder out there that does not always return the engine sent for rebuild. This would then require removal and restamping - However, this could mean there is more than one engine with the same number. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi I'm looking at a TR5 this morning. I can't find the engine number to check it's authenticity. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dave Dave Any good engine builder will deck the block as they can and do twist.The history file and mileage will give you some idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Decking the block is perfectly reasonable, and sensible, but it does not have to involve machining off the number . . . . that suggests to me either a machinist of limited competence, or a dodgy deal of one sort or another somewhere along the time line. Without an original number it's not a TR5 engine, it's a Triumph 6-pot and that's all you can say. Personally I couldn't give a monkey's toss for the engine's origins, I'm more concerned with whether it does the job (and how well) than where it's been. However, the average TR5 buyer is likely to attach considerable importance (for which read ackers, spondoolahs) to the presence or otherwise of an original engine. That may be misplaced priority, but then if the buyer had any sense he'd save himself some money and buy a 4A or a 6 instead of paying a silly premium for a 5. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave.M Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Decking the block is perfectly reasonable, and sensible, but it does not have to involve machining off the number . . . . that suggests to me either a machinist of limited competence, or a dodgy deal of one sort or another somewhere along the time line. Without an original number it's not a TR5 engine, it's a Triumph 6-pot and that's all you can say. Personally I couldn't give a monkey's toss for the engine's origins, I'm more concerned with whether it does the job (and how well) than where it's been. However, the average TR5 buyer is likely to attach considerable importance (for which read ackers, spondoolahs) to the presence or otherwise of an original engine. That may be misplaced priority, but then if the buyer had any sense he'd save himself some money and buy a 4A or a 6 instead of paying a silly premium for a 5. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave.M Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hi Thanks again for all your input. It's always been a TR5 for me.. I agree that as long as the engine in the car is fit for purpose, that is the main criteria. But, as you say, If I want to see the value remain in the car, I need to confirm the engines origin. Is there any way to establish that the anonomous engine is a genuine TR5 block? What does the number on the head tell us? From memory it starts, or finishes, with GT5. I guess my next call is to the engineers who rebuilt the engine. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hi Dave, Cylinder heads - http://www.chriswitor.com/cw_technical/head_applications_chart.pdf It's pretty much impossible to determine whether it's TR5, early TR6 or Mk1PI - there are plenty of correctly numbered 'TR5' engines out there that started life elsewhere . . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Dave Check the date on the block side (cast in) ..... if its within a few months before the commission date of the car then the chances are its the right engine, or else someone has gone to a great deal of trouble to source a block of the correct vintage. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I can recall at least 3 TR specialists who used to keep racks full of blocks and heads for just that purpose, after all grinding off and restamping the number is easy enough - there must be many a car out there claiming originality for an engine that came from elsewhere . . . nothing new ! Not to mention freshly aged commission plates . . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mjc Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Alec I've got a 516816 cylinder head on my original TR5 engine. From your pdf chart it implies that this isn't an original head. Were there any crossover of numbers for a late TR5 early TR6? Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Hi Mike, not my chart, credit to Chris Witor ! As for crossover of numbers, your guess is as good as mine - engineering change records might tell you, but even that doesn't account for anomalies. If you were trying to get cars out and components were short, you made do with what you had in stock, wheeeooo an anomaly has just been built. Then again early days of PI, more than just the odd head was crocked by service mechanics who didn't know what they were doing with PI. Nothing unusual about a head only a few months old having been replaced under warranty. Unless it's one owner from new with full history, it's anybody's guess. Even then, garages don't always tell you if they've had to replace something under warranty, they just tell you it's sorted - less embarrassment that way. Once a car has been through two or three sets of hands, you can't rely on any damn thing, and I don't give a hoot how many bits of supporting paper there might be. Any fool can write a receipt or a service record, that doesn't mean it's entirely accurate or even true. All that is the early years, before we move on to passing decades, and the shenanigans of successive owners, dealers and specialists. Crikey billy goats, half the so-called 'historic' and 'ex-works' cars around are little more than concoctions and confections, so what chance has a more mundane car got ? Well OK, possibly a bit better chance, there isn't quite the financial incentive ! All of which is just another way of suggesting that folks getting all anally retentive about originality is so much old cobblers. Cheers, Alec Edited June 27, 2011 by Alec Pringle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mjc Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Alec I have the original V5 green card document from 1968 for my 5 and the engine number was incorectly recorded by the dealers as 516816 the no on the cylinder head. The engine number is the same as the heritage certificate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hi Mike, wonderful - doesn't that say a lot for the brain of a dealer !!! In all likelihood then that's what the car was supplied with - Roger Ferris would probably know as much as anyone of the fine details of cylinder head fitment. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Isn't that a 2.5s cylinder head number? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 No, 2.5S is 219016 Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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