Piper Cams - Mild Road/Fast Road

[matt george]

Hi guys,

 

I'm building up a 2500 engine, actually to go in my 2000, but that's not the real point. I'm thinking about getting a new cam from Piper, either the Mild Road or Fast Road examples, but would like to hear other people's opinions on them before committing to buy. Are they good/bad/indifferent?

 

The engine is shaping up to feature a long branch inlet manifold with twin HS6 SU's, a 6-3-1 exhaust manifold and full sports system, plus a lightened flywheel, so I suppose other suggestions of a good cam to go with this would also be good. I'm not looking for anything too wild as the 2000 is basically my daily driver for when the TR is hibernating, but I'm thinking a fast road item would be ok?

 

I look forward to hearing what people have to say

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[Guest ntc]

Hi guys,

 

I'm building up a 2500 engine, actually to go in my 2000, but that's not the real point. I'm thinking about getting a new cam from Piper, either the Mild Road or Fast Road examples, but would like to hear other people's opinions on them before committing to buy. Are they good/bad/indifferent?

 

The engine is shaping up to feature a long branch inlet manifold with twin HS6 SU's, a 6-3-1 exhaust manifold and full sports system, plus a lightened flywheel, so I suppose other suggestions of a good cam to go with this would also be good. I'm not looking for anything too wild as the 2000 is basically my daily driver for when the TR is hibernating, but I'm thinking a fast road item would be ok?

 

I look forward to hearing what people have to say

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Matt

 

Edited October 28, 2010 by ntc

[Guest ntc]

What do you reckon Stuart ? should I?

[stuart]

What do you reckon Stuart ? should I?

 

PM him

Stuart

[rpurchon]

Hi guys,

 

I'm building up a 2500 engine, actually to go in my 2000, but that's not the real point. I'm thinking about getting a new cam from Piper, either the Mild Road or Fast Road examples, but would like to hear other people's opinions on them before committing to buy. Are they good/bad/indifferent?

 

The engine is shaping up to feature a long branch inlet manifold with twin HS6 SU's, a 6-3-1 exhaust manifold and full sports system, plus a lightened flywheel, so I suppose other suggestions of a good cam to go with this would also be good. I'm not looking for anything too wild as the 2000 is basically my daily driver for when the TR is hibernating, but I'm thinking a fast road item would be ok?

 

I look forward to hearing what people have to say

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

 

have a look here at g thomas web site.

 

www.jagclub.ru/tr_heads.html

 

and click on the camshaft link, and all the other pages

good reading and amuzing,he doesnt beat around the bush.basicly says all uk suppliers are con men,and bullshiters.[probably true]

richard

Edited October 28, 2010 by rpurchon

[Guest ntc]

have a look here at g thomas web site.

 

www.jagclub.ru/tr_heads.html

 

and click on the camshaft link, and all the other pages

good reading and amuzing,he doesnt beat around the bush.basicly says all uk suppliers are con men,and bullshiters.[probably true]

richard

 

 

Richard

I have sent Matt a pm

[Tom Fremont]

have a look here at g thomas web site.

 

www.jagclub.ru/tr_heads.html

 

and click on the camshaft link, and all the other pages

good reading and amuzing,he doesnt beat around the bush.basicly says all uk suppliers are con men,and bullshiters.[probably true]

richard

 

 

Is there anyone he doesn't slander ? May be some validity to his spiel but he lost me when he referred to Kastner as an idiot

[Alec Pringle]

Bullshit baffles brains.

 

It's impossible to take seriously anyone who carts round a bag of chips on each shoulder heavier than Postman Pat could lift.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Tony Millward]

Is there anyone he doesn't slander ? May be some validity to his spiel but he lost me when he referred to Kastner as an idiot

 

 

Yep, me too. I think what he said about Racestorations cam is possibly libelous...

 

Tony (a Kas Kastner fan)

[jellison]

I CAN see where this person is coming from on "some" of this.

 

Some of the UK sources or real top end tuning / race stuff you can get in the UK is ****. I have had many similar experiences.

 

Some of his experiences I totally agree with (on head tuners - most of the usual suspects will never produce you a race winning head - just the same old stuff they have tuned out for decades).

 

No names but I agree on his view on some of the reliability of purchased rotating components - some UK supplier stuf is just plan SH*T and should not be trusted (one supplier in particular I would never get machined rotating stuff from as it is **** - only the cast bits being fairly nice (no real stresses going through them to break them).

 

Kastner - hmm - he might have known his stuff 30 - 45 years back - alot has changed if you want a REALLY Fast Race car.

 

HOWEVER - this person is Gareth Thomas - one of the biggest arses ever to be involve in Triumphs (just google his name and GTEVO) - he is a Nasty piece of work.

 

FYI - http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1206454287/

 

Although I can see where he is coming from on some points, the main upshot is that he is a Class A D*CK, so don't take any of this to heart.

Edited October 29, 2010 by jellison

[matt george]

Bit of a thread drift. Does anybody have particular cams to recommend then? Taking into account use with an engine on HS6s rather than PI?

Edited October 29, 2010 by matt george

[rpurchon]

Bit of a thread drift. Does anybody have particular cams to recommend then? Taking into account use with an engine on HS6s rather than PI?

 

similar set up as you, exhaust, sus, diy head job

triumph std cams,rolling road at malvern and these are the guestimated flywheel figures, cr cam 148. early usa cc cam 136.

have just got a new cam from newman cams for mk1 2.5pi 308788 but with a bit more cam lift at .260".

the cam is halfway between a cr and cp cam.

havent fitted yet, but hope,aiming to get 125 at the wheels.

richard

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Matt,

 

sticking to the point of your enquiry, please see PM.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Rhodri]

I have used Piper cams, many years ago, on a big-bore Mini with fantastic results. Before that even, I used a Newman cam in an MGA engined Elva, again fantastic. I have a Kent cam to fit a crossflow Ford, for my Rochdale, but haven't done it yet. With the first two shops you can speak to someone who seems to know what they are talking about and can advise you, Kent cams may be the same, but I have never needed to contact them. One of the main TR specialists, a respected one, uses Piper cams to their own grind. I have one in my TR4 but haven't evaluated it yet.

 

Rod

[jellison]

On the fast road cam, if "just this" you "might" get away with not touching the metering unit - but I doubt it. If this and other mods, say exhuast and definately if porting or a head skim you will definately need to tweek the cam to give more fueling. More Oomph = more fuel.

 

I'd find someone that knows about tweeking the metering unit an have it adjusted for what you do to the engine. Don't think you can just pop it in and end of (well you could - but it won't run as well as it could).

[Bill P]

Hi Folks,

 

This is my first time contributing to the forum, so forgive me if I am missing something. I am in a similar situation to Matt, with Webers, extractor manifold, improved head, on TR6 and about to obtain a Piper camshaft. Does the fact that 'PMs' have been sent mean that there is something dodgy with Piper cams?

 

Would be interested in replies to Matts mild or fast Piper options.

 

Thanks

 

Bill

[jellison]

Does the fact that 'PMs' have been sent mean that there is something dodgy with Piper cams? - NO - They are reputable company.

 

Bill the above on the mettering unit will apply for the jetting and general fine tuning of the webbers once the cam has been fitted as per Pipers Cam instructions.

[TR 2100]

Hi Matt,

 

Once you have made your decision and rebuilt the engine,

check out other threads for what to do when running in a

new cam.

 

Gently does it is NOT the way - seems that you give the

engine 3000rpm for a while.

I think this is because the cam depends on misting for

lubrication, which you don't get at low revs.

 

AlanR

[jellison]

Never used a Piper Cam - maybe a re think then. I'd contact Cambridge Motorsport or TR Enterprises for a TR cam from a TR specific place.

 

So who was the specialist that built the engine that eat the Piper cam - come on - it is hardly lible (just saying who built it!). Or give us a country!

[Guest ntc]

Never used a Piper Cam - maybe a re think then. I'd contact Cambridge Motorsport or TR Enterprises for a TR cam from a TR specific place.

 

So who was the specialist that built the engine that eat the Piper cam - come on - it is hardly lible (just saying who built it!). Or give us a country!

 

 

It is more than one John

[Nick Jones]

You could try Newman Cams, they seem to have a better rep than most and also do a "CP" style cam on a new blank.

 

I ran a Piper 270/2 cam in a 1500 Herald years ago. Was always very noisy due to asymetric profile and ate a cam lobe after a fairly short mileage. I did use cam lube and follow the running in procedure......

 

Nick

[Mk1PI]

Racetorations are the company. I expected more from Darryl to be honest, after spending quite a bit of money

 

Unfortunately I had a very similar experience with Darryl using a '150' cam supplied with his springs (at great cost) . Lost a lobe in <1000kms despite all precautions taken during initial start up.

 

I use another (Australian) cam grinder now using Newman blanks or NOS now and a friend has also had good experience with Newman (recommended by a GT6 racer that never had a Newman cam fail).

[Alec Pringle]

One thing baffles me here, forgive me if I'm being obtuse . . . .

 

From the late 60s to the late 70s I did a fair amount of test and development driving, one way or another. Not because I was a hotshoe racer, I wasn't, but because I could drive on track quickly and in a disciplined manner, to orders, and feed back the information the engineers and mechanics required. They needed symptoms, accurate descriptions, and that was it - not some half-baked pseudo analysis from the nut behind the wheel. No computers or telemetry back then. Sprint race engines you could build fast and loose, within reason it didn't matter how much fuel oil or water they consumed. Endurance racing - 500miles, 1000kms, 6/12/24 Hours - was another matter, you couldn't afford to guzzle oil or water, and often enough fuel consumption mattered too. Hence the in-depth testing, and building 'tight' race engines that required to be 'run-in'. All sorts of problems manifested themselves of course, that was what it was all about, but camshafts were not normally a problem - whether in 4, 6, 8 or 12 cylinder engines, 1, 2 or 4 cams apiece.

 

So why the heck are TR camshafts such a problem nowadays ? No, that's not a rhetorical question, it's a simple and straightforward question. We are talking about road engines of an old-fashioned sort, even the race engines are unsophisticated - by the standards of 40 years ago, let alone the 21st Century. TR camshafts weren't a problem in the 70s or 80s.

 

What has changed ? Roller rockers ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Mk1PI]

Pretty sure there (still are?) were a lot of poorly hardened blanks about - no idea who made them but whatever the method of hardening it wasn't sufficient. I can understand when regrinds fail as the base circle is reduced and the original hardening can be compromised (best to tuftride or similar) but new blanks failing is inexcusable

AFAIK Newman induction harden their lobes to a greater depth than the originals and they do not advise any other hardening treatment.

Most cams are made in India or Turkey now rather than Lydney, Glos. etc- hopefully the guys that sell you them know where to get the good ones

 

Something else that bugs me is I bet Standard Triumph never started all their brand new engines and ran them at 2000rpm for 20mins to avoid cam failure.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Mk1PI

[jellison]

Racetorations are the company. I expected more from Darryl to be honest, after spending quite a bit of money and being a loyal customer. Guess that counts for nothing nowadays does it? No wonder people leave the Register and buy something modern and reliable.

 

I don't have the money to get it fixed so I guess I am stuffed. This explains the response to an earlier thread a few weeks ago on Camshafts. I need some beer ...............

 

My thoughts on Darryls stuff is pretty well known (Cast stuff like pump housing and sumps are fine, but ANYTHING that goes round and round and up and down, DON'T even consider using there stuff), as for actually handing over something (not body) but mechanical to be rebuilt NO WAY. All this is my own opinion of course.

 

Sorry you have ended up in this state. We stopped using Specialist years back (they don't (in many cases) know anymore than) a general engine builder or non specialist - an engine is and engine and if you can build one well the make is not a factor.

 

If you have the time - get to an engine building class and learn how to do it yourself (I am not saying I do mine - lucky my father can (in conjunction with a very goo local engineering shop - you need this)), but I can do pretty much anything on the car besides the engine and box / diff (they always go to the Oracle).

 

It ain't hard - just take it slow - find a good engineering shop you trust and work with them. Don't expect any help from RCT. One other "Specialist rebuilt a race engine of mine - it lasted a race before we realised he was no more expert that "the Fat bloke at the end of the Bar" and did it ourselves.

 

Modern cars are for everyday movement (just a device to do a job) - classics are for fun.