randall977 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 My car suddenly is not starting and I'm nt sure why. I turn the key and get a click, both battery wires are hot afterwards, a small puff of smoke came up around the solenoid area at one point (presumably grease burning off due to a short???)... I assume something is shorting but what is most likely - solenoid, starter itself? Earths and battery is fine. Any suggestions greatfully recieved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi Christian, don't presume the grease bit too much it could well be wiring Investigate in a logical order. Check earth connections from battery/chassis etc Is the battery charged? Disconnect starter motor cable from solenoid. Turn on ignition - and wait. Is every thing normal, not hot (cables, solenoid etc) Turn ignition switch to turn the motor (obviously it won't turn but is everything still OK) Does the starter motor spin freely by hand (this could be awkward) Connect starter motor and power up for a short period (1 or 2 seconds) - did it turn, did the cables get hot/warm. If all is OK give it a longer spin. If having trouble getting S/M to turn on the key have you tried pressing the button on the solenoid. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herald948 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 ...I turn the key and get a click, both battery wires are hot afterwards, a small puff of smoke came up around the solenoid area at one point...What you describe is typical of dirty battery connections and/or those to those solenoid, starter and/or grounds. Clean those and likely the problem will be solved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thanks Herald 948 - I did briefly wonder if something like that might have happened but why would the main battery wires get hot? I did check the connections with a multimeter... If not that, then will work through possible problems as you suggest Roger. Battery and earth are fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 I did check the connections with a multimeter How? Starter needs 300 amps breaking/250 turning. The presence of voltage does not mean that the cables and connections will transmit 300 amps Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 If the lead from battery to starter motor is getting hot (rather than the battery terminals or the solenoid connector), it is almost certainly because the starter motor is not spinning (i.e. is stalled) and hence is drawing the maximum possible current. This could be because it has jammed (teeth of starter motor not engaging properly with ring gear) or because there is a fault in the motor itself. As soon as the motor starts to spin, it generates a "back e.m.f.", which means that the current is reduced somewhat. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 My testing went as far as to check connections - not the quality of the connections! The end cap is missing from my starter - I can turn it easily with my fingers so it's not jammed(I rebuilt it a few months back). The cables which get hot are from the battery to the body and the battery to the starter solenoid... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) It is possible for the main contacts in the solenoid to get dirty and not allow enough current to get to the starter. The click means the low current side is working OK. I had this occur on my boat's outboard motor (not the TR sorry). From memory the solenoid felt hotter than the nearby hot wires. I was able to pull it to bits and clean it. Can't recall whether the TR one lets you do that. (drilled out two rivets, could then open the can.) Would be a matter of putting an ammeter in the starter circuit and seeing if the right number comes up when you hit the button. Substituting another solenoid would be the easiest way to go. Edited October 23, 2010 by littlejim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Christian You can always use something to short across the terminals of the solinoid ie a very large screwdriver after all it is only a switch. The other option is to use a pair of jump leads, clip one to the earth side of the battry ( I dont know if your car is posative or negative earth) and connect to a clean bit of engine. Connect the other to the starter side of the solinoid then touch the other battry terminal with it. If starter turns then suspect solinoid, if not starter. My money would be on a poor earth to the starter itself which is why it is important to use 2 jumpleads Its quite common for the bearings to drop out of the Lucas starter so that it turns easily by hand but when current is applied it jams. Cheers Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Just a word of warning concerning measurement of current in that circuit. Most multimeters read to 10 amps, and the starter will be drawing somewhere between 100-200 amps (I'm guessing, but the number will be LARGE and could be >200 amps)! If you use a multimeter if will be ruined in a flash! Lots of useful advice (as always on the Forum) from ever-helpful people. Best of luck (and let us know what it was when you find it!). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 You do have a good earth from body/battery to engine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted October 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Thanks for the replies - I now have a plan of action...unfortunatly I have not had time to carry it out! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I had a starter that turned OK by hand but one of the bearings had disintegrated and the armature jammed itself hard against the stator when energised... starter/battery cables would smoke away nicely... New bronze bearing fixed it...still runs nicely 20 yrs later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted October 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I do hope that it's not the starter - I rebuilt it a few months back and it's a real pain to remove... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Christian, if the bush at the back comes out then you will be able to tell by waggling the small piece of armature that stick out the back. If it moves up/down/sideways you need a new bush. easy to fix if so. Mine fell out on the way to the lakes one year. When I got home I went to Moss's and asked for a bush 'Ah ha' says the man 'you have lost the original one then'. 'No' says I. 'I know exactly where it is. It is on the M6 in Birmingham'. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 I replaced the rear bush as it was missing - the internal one is original but seemed fine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted November 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 The problem was the starter solenoid - easy to replace and only £10 new...eBay! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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