THOROUGHBRED SPORTSCAR CHAMPIONSHIP

[Mike Hazlewood]

Hi to all competitors in the TSCC championship, I would like to draw your attention to the recently published regs for next seasons championship about class B & C cars running with aeroscreens. Cars will only be allowed to run with them if they were raced by the works at the time of their current production. Which means we will have to run hard or soft tops next year. TR2/3/3a are excluded from this because they were raced in period with aero's.

The reason is I believe that this will make our cars fit in class B/C better as the classes are for road modified cars rather than race modified as in class D.

There are already 3 or 4 cars currently running with hardtops in the championship currently and it does not appear to slow them down just makes the drivers a lot warmer.

Your comments are welcome on the above.

[BrianC]

Which means we will have to run hard or soft tops next year. TR2/3/3a are excluded from this because they were raced in period with aero's.

 

Does that mean you can't run an open car (i.e. windscreen, with or without tonneau cover) unless you qualify foraeroscreens?

[roy53]

Does that mean you can't run an open car (i.e. windscreen, with or without tonneau cover) unless you qualify foraeroscreens?

 

As i read it in the draft regs 4/5/6 can run open top but would have to go into class D,unless one of our more knowlegeable readers can find prouf that the works ran the cars without screens in period.

ROY

[jellison]

This is all not correct - I have just written to Pam and Colin.

 

See the below:-

 

Ever since the TR Register has run a race series the cars (all cars no distinction 2 through to 6) cars have largely run without front screens. I joined it in 89/90 and most cars at that time did not run screens, they had been running like this since the early 80's when the TR4's of Steve Hall and Pete Cox had been at the front. I do not ever remember reading any regs that say we could never run without a screen (or if it was there "everyone" I had ever seen racing was not running to those).

 

Please ask Mike Hughes on this (Race Chairman since forever) and he has "always run his 5 without a screen /roof (for close to 30 years).

 

The pictures I have attached are largely going back to about 2000ish, but I have many many going back to the mid 80's when most TR's were choosing to run without a screen. There should be zero distinction between a 3 and a 4 (and later) the screens are the same size and the equally come off in few minutes as just held on with 2 bolts. Sent in stacks of TR Reg races pictures, the TR regs as I am (it seems to me all other that have ever competed in the series) aware made you run a screen if running in Roadsports, but once in Tuned 4 or 6 cylinder class or Modified under 3 litre class allowed you to take the screen off of ANY TR. Race modified 8 cylinder did not allow this as the screen was and intergral part of the car in hard and softtop form (i.e. to remove it you would have to "but" it off (as they did in the US)), the Tuned 4 or 6 cylinder class or Modified 6 class allowed it on all 2 - 6 cars because it was a simple unbolt job. You did not have to do it and some chose not to Joe Henderson, Richard Bull and a few others (Alan C).

 

The only TR Regs I have found on my PC are from 2003 (by which point I think I had largely stopped doing the Register as it was on it is last legs).

 

Please see

 

5.(6).1 Modifications Permitted:

1. GENERAL:

ALL CLASSES.— All body panels to be fixed in place as originally. All internal structure including closing panels in their original location. Hard tops permitted. Hood & frame may be removed, flexible tonneau cover may be fitted.

CLASSES A,B,C,D. — Internal structure MUST be steel (except transmission tunnel, which may be fibreglass)(Except in class C where boot floor must be metal) CLASSES E,F.— Internal structure must be metal.

CLASS B (except TR4-8), CLASS C (except Spitfire MK4), CLASS D (except TR7, 7V8-8), CLASS E (except TR7) may remove windscreens.

 

The cars running in the TSCC are from the Tuned 4 or 6 class or Modified upto 3 litres (i.e. any TR that was not a TR8). Even in class C and D (tuned 4 and 6) most of the cars ran without screens (maybe this was an unwritten allowance on the rule, but people like Mike Hughes that ran the series for most of its time was always in Tuned 6 and never ran a screen).

 

But equally any of the tuned 4 or 6 cylinder cars could have and a lot did (the more tweeked ones) run in Modified under 3 litres (we always had way to many classes in the TRs and partly why the series was always struggling), my TR4 as it is now would have been in Modified under 3 litres (hence definitely not having to run a screen) and the 6 as it is now would only have been running in Modified under 3 litres (so the same allowed to run a screen), it was more down to how moddied the engine and running gear was to whether you ran in tuned 4 or 6 or in Full Modified under 3 litres (4 and 6 cylinder TRs).

 

A car from Moddified under 3 litres TR Regisiter rules fall square in the Class C TSCC rules (so can run a screen).

 

So the TR Regs DO allow the removal of the windscreen if the car is in the Modified below 3 litre class, which both my cars would have run in if they were running in a TR Register Series still running to these regs today.

 

Please ee the Pole 02 picture (sent to teh TSCC team) where a 3rd of the cars in this TR race are screenless. Going back to the 80's and through the 90's this number of screenless cars would have been more like 50%. Also see the Brands 01 TR Reg.JPG pic (one of the last good grids for the Register) - this has about 1/3 screenless TRs (an assortment of 4 and 6 cylinder cars, but obviously no 8's as per the regs).

 

I am only likely to do a few races in 2010 and only if I can run the TR6 or the 4 as they are now (I cannot get a screen on the 4 a the cage was built onto it when it was never intended for it to ever have a screen as long as it was going to be raced). That would be the cage thrown away. On the 6 the screen wiper system, hardtop and side windows would add about 70+kg (i.e the car would be about a ton. We race New and old Morgans that can run with or without their screens (the 2000 Jag engine cars having more power / torque than a Modified TR6 and about the same weight (low 900 kgs).

 

The TR Register has always run as per the above and the rules say the more tuned 4 and 6 cylinder cars definitely do not require the windscreen (optional).

 

Pic PA100407.JPG is the TR championship winning (and Class E Modified under 3 litres) TR6 from the mid 90's of Richard Wright that Rob Roodhouse has just bought. He also will want to run it like this (whether in C (if he balasts it) or D if as purchased (+ a front cage), it has always run like this ((Screeless) as long it has been tracke), same for my 4, Mikes 4, Steve Chapmans 4, Mike Hughes TR5, Rob Cowings TR6, Dave Baileys TR4, I could go on..............

 

Regards

Jon

 

Like I said the TR rules DO allow 4 and 6 cylinder cars to run screenless (you could say that less tuned ones should have screens and hard tops if in class B of the TSCC, this would be fine as that is the way the MGB's have to run. But in Class C the Modified under 3 litres TR rules should cover all the cars that want to run here.

[Mike Hazlewood]

Hi,

 

The way I have read the new draft regulations for the 2010 season is that we are running under Thoroughbred regulations and not TR regulations.

I beleive the TR4/5/6's are required to run with either full standard windscreens with or without hardtops or softops in place as they would have been raced in production years 1962 to 1975.

However we do need to verify this with the organising committee.

TR 2/3/3a of course are allowed to run aeroscreens because they were raced in the 50,s like this.

This applies to only to class A B and C As Roy mentioned there is no restriction in class D as the cars are race modified.

[jellison]

I think both my cars will be staying in the garage in 2010!

 

What the Throughbreds regs is I don't really understand. TR4, 5 or 6's in any state of tune (even like Simons (mega light but simalar engine to ours) and Joes (that has to be a "Big" Church! engine). We are stuffed. my 4 cannot have a screen as the cage was built with it never going to be raced with one ala the TR register regs. And the TR6 will have to add lots of weights and cost (money I don't have).

 

I have always run screenless as have you (bar a few seasons in the cooking Roadsports spec TR6).

 

I won't be racing then - getting really cheesed off with the whole thing. The D type and Modern 250bhp Jag engine Mogs can rock up and run aeros screens, but Oh No not TR's.

 

This rule should be for class B (TSCC) so the 4's look like MGB's (roofed and screen), but not in C where our direct competitor DON't have to run screen! The TR register allowed for the more modified 4 and 6 cylinder to be in RACE MODIFIED and run no screen as many did and many have in teh TSCC since I have been running in it.

 

I give up.

[Alec Pringle]

It might be worth referring to 1961 FIA Appendix J article 270 . . . .

 

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/B797EC1DABA164B7C125749C0053CF5C/$FILE/Hist_App_J_61_Art_270_a.pdf

 

and then following App J through subsequent years.

 

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAHistoricRacingChampionships.aspx

 

The Thoroughbred logic is in line with my understanding of current FIA thinking in respect of historic competition, and that line of thinking has evolved over several years past - it's not a new 'flash in the pan'.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[jellison]

It might be worth referring to 1961 FIA Appendix J article 270 . . . .

 

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/B797EC1DABA164B7C125749C0053CF5C/$FILE/Hist_App_J_61_Art_270_a.pdf

 

and then following App J through subsequent years.

 

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAHistoricRacingChampionships.aspx

 

The Thoroughbred logic is in line with my understanding of current FIA thinking in respect of historic competition, and that line of thinking has evolved over several years past - it's not a new 'flash in the pan'.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Alec - what part of the second link should I be looking at?

 

This does tie in with some of the european cars I have seen with "cut down windscreen". My 6's screen is alot bigger that most be full width plexi but probably only about 18cm instead of 25cm. I suppose I could make my plexi higher on the 6, but the 100cm width cover about 90-95% of the width of the screen / body at this point so the angle in from the edge to the central 100 cm x 25cm would be steep and then you might have to run a wiper! Think I'd struggle with this on the 4 but might work on the Tr6 (through a cropped std screen in plexe with a chopped wiper could work!?

 

This really hacks me off when our main competitor in classc C are NEW Morgans with 3.0 Jag / Ford (250bhp 24v) lumps that can choose to run with or with out!! AND D-type reps which can have 3.8 - 4.2+ cc lumps tuned to the same spec as our 2.2 (Tr4 to 2.7 Tr6)!!!!

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Jon,

 

second link - click on the bottom item, Appendix J of the Period

 

Complete run-through of Appendix J from its inception in 1961 . . . .

 

A couple of items above the Appendix J link is Appendix K 2010 - not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, but as usual you have to cross-reference every detail between K 2010 and J of the Period, bearing in mind the inevitable plethora of changes from K 2009 to K 2010.

 

Yes, I agree, it's hellish boring stuff - but it's the small print that all too often wins championships. That's what team managers are for !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[jellison]

Hi Jon,

 

second link - click on the bottom item, Appendix J of the Period

 

Complete run-through of Appendix J from its inception in 1961 . . . .

 

A couple of items above the Appendix J link is Appendix K 2010 - not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, but as usual you have to cross-reference every detail between K 2010 and J of the Period, bearing in mind the inevitable plethora of changes from K 2009 to K 2010.

 

Yes, I agree, it's hellish boring stuff - but it's the small print that all too often wins championships. That's what team managers are for !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

My point is that how can they come up with this stuff and say what was run by "works" cars in period? What Period TR6's and 5's were not run in the pre 66 fia type historic rules. The 6 was not even produced till 69! Non of the TSCC cars racing comply with fia regs (the hole championship is based on us running historic period cars but allowing alot freeer rules around engine, brakes and tyres etc (i.e. modern stuff). So to pick one reg on screens when most of the cars deviant from these rules in so many ways seems, well weird at best!

 

The biggest market for all TR's (and MG's) was always the US and TR's ran for the "Works" by Bob Tullius (is that spelt right?) ran with no screen or little fiber air deflectors. I.e. along the lines of how the TR Register always allowed for the more modified 4's and 6's.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Jon,

 

The FIA is run from Paris - need I say more ?

 

Logic, brains and enterprise are possibly alien concepts, common sense most certainly is.

 

The syndrome is catching, filters down through the ranks . . . .

 

There are plenty of marques/models that were raced nationally and internationally by privateers, but not by their manufacturers as 'works' cars.

 

Whatever happened in the USA seems to be generally set aside, on the grounds that the cars were running to national championship regulations, not international. Plus the fact that both Kastner's and Tullius' operations were one step (at least) removed from being pukka 'works' entries.

 

There seems to be a current fetish in Paris with external appearance, as opposed to what's under the skin, which may perhaps explain the windscreen/aeroscreen issues ?

 

The only answer, or so it seems to me, would be for marque enthusiasts to band together and present documentary evidence of period useage of particular features and argue the toss from there. United we stand etc etc . . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[alan57]

Having competed in the Thorobreds since God was a boy, may I be permitted to comment!

 

The problem the championship has is in trying to cater for a multiplicity of marques and to reach a degree of equality, which can never be 100%! It is for that reason that the 4 cylinder TRs were "dropped" a class for a trial period for 09 (and now 2010).

 

The technical regs have always involved some compromise between the championships own regs and those relating to various 1 make series, but as far as I know the TR Register race regulations were never fully adopted by the Thorobreds, and TRs therefore would run to this championships own technical regs. My own car, for example, has always run, and been prepared to the Thoro'bred regs, which admittedly permitted it to run an aeroscreen, altho for many years it has in fact run with screen and hard top - like a good number of others.

 

As I understand it, the new regs only prohibit aerosreens for TR 4s 5s and 6s in standard and roadgoing modified glass, so aeros could still be run in modified, so as always it is a matter of choice as to which class (if any) a driver wishes to run in!.You can still run open if you chose - but with the full screen.

 

Altho the screen on a 4 5 or 6 is easily removable it is clear that they were never actually designed to run screenless - unlike 2s, 3s and some other marques/models.

 

In passing, the Thorobred regs have as long as I can remember stated that competing cars should " retain original Appearance" as far as possible (3rd para of reg 5(2))

 

Changes to regs can always aggrieve some, but to use the time honoured cliche "thats motor racing"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jellison]

Having competed in the Thorobreds since God was a boy, may I be permitted to comment!

 

The problem the championship has is in trying to cater for a multiplicity of marques and to reach a degree of equality, which can never be 100%! It is for that reason that the 4 cylinder TRs were "dropped" a class for a trial period for 09 (and now 2010).

 

The technical regs have always involved some compromise between the championships own regs and those relating to various 1 make series, but as far as I know the TR Register race regulations were never fully adopted by the Thorobreds, and TRs therefore would run to this championships own technical regs. My own car, for example, has always run, and been prepared to the Thoro'bred regs, which admittedly permitted it to run an aeroscreen, altho for many years it has in fact run with screen and hard top - like a good number of others.

 

As I understand it, the new regs only prohibit aerosreens for TR 4s 5s and 6s in standard and roadgoing modified glass, so aeros could still be run in modified, so as always it is a matter of choice as to which class (if any) a driver wishes to run in!.You can still run open if you chose - but with the full screen.

 

Altho the screen on a 4 5 or 6 is easily removable it is clear that they were never actually designed to run screenless - unlike 2s, 3s and some other marques/models.

 

In passing, the Thorobred regs have as long as I can remember stated that competing cars should " retain original Appearance" as far as possible (3rd para of reg 5(2))

 

Changes to regs can always aggrieve some, but to use the time honoured cliche "thats motor racing"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alan well put.

 

But this was not voted on! It make sense to have the class b 4 cylinder TR's to have roofs and screns as per the MGB's in this class - "But this was not voted on", only thing changed (that was voted on) was an increase on 4 cylinder TR's weight if there were to continue to run in B - this was voted on and accepted.

 

Hence nothing discussed on screens at the meeting. + The Class C in the TSCC equate to the Tuned or Modified under 3 litres TR Register rules (as long as 80% of kern weight). No TR running in the Top TSCC class can stand a chance of running and beating any of the top class D cars, (this is a class allowing race modified free engines up to 5.0 litres!). So no one is going to go there unless that do not care about being well beaten (if beaten is even the right word!), you are just cannon fodder for the one MGBV8 that dominates the class, you might have a reasonable crack at the D Morgans (as restricted 260bhp Mog Class B ones), but so what they can only win if the said MG does not race.

 

TR's in "Club" racing has always allowed for the option of running TR without a screen, the TR Register allowed in Modified under 3 litres (and all the Tunedd 4's and 6's always ran screenless even though not strictly in the rules!), the US SCCA (60's through to the present day), all the European series running TR's (i.e. the German and Dutch) and the TR Register Sprint series. These series have always allowed TRs competitor to run Screenless if they wish (not talking pre 66 fia rules here) we are talking "Club" racing.

 

Nothing along these lines was chaired or voted on.

[Mike Hazlewood]

Thank you Alan for your level headed thoughts on the problems we are facing with rule changes which are taking place at the moment within the championship.

I totally agree that it is very difficult to keep everybody happy within the championship with such a variety of cars currently racing.

One point I must make is that both class B and class C cars are for road modified cars but cater for different size engines so the same rules apply for both.

Class D however is Race modified so all cars are permitted to run with various mods including aeroscreens.

The TR's run under Thoroughbred regulations and not TR Register race championship regs.

Yes I know these rule changes are not going to make everybody happy but we will have to possibly live with it.

The Thoroughbred Sportscar Championship is still one of the most successful championships currently running and is well supported by a large number of TR drivers and i think is a natural home for us considering the modifications we have made to our cars which excludes us from running in other well supported series and championships like HSCC,Equipe GTS and 50's Sportscar series run by the AMOC.

Most of the modifield TR6's with experienced drivers can compete at the very front of both class C and D and have had many class wins and overall victories in recent years and also the 4 cylinder cars have been very competative in class B in 2009 and still will be next year.

I personally do not think that running a windsreen with a hardtop will slow our cars down at all, we only have to look at a certain TR5 raced by Mark Cambell who would be able to compete strongly with any car racing in the Thoroughbreds at the moment, his car is running a hardtop and I believe the weight of the car is in the region of 940 kgs.

 

Regards Mike Hazlewood.

[alan57]

Here! here! MIke - couldn't agree more - one of the reasons for the Championship's success over many years is its ability to attract a variety of cars. Some come and go - Astons ruled a few years ago and then a Griffiths was the car to have! Surely part of the fun is pitting yourself against different cars and now and again pulling off a "giant killer" as you and I both know!!! It has in fact been that way for years - just ask Chris Conoley about his time driving Grev Watson's modified TR4-complete with screen and hardtop! Any championship has to modify and adapt to survive - perhaps more so now than for a long time - may the championship continue to thrive, not just for pot hunters but those that appreciate good sport and competition!

[jellison]

Christ MH has changed his tuned!! - had a chat with the people that are pushing this through and realised, "it is like it or lump it", I presume!

 

It still hacks me off, partly as I have always liked racing TR's without Damn screen and hard tops. It is the bloody principle. And we have bloody Brand New Morgans in the Class C that have more power and can take there screens off (just cos they can in some other Morgan series!).

 

I won't be changing my TR6, but then I am only likely to race a few times, and cash is better spent on my other project.

 

Also the point about Mark Campbell is right. But 2 things, he is clearly a VERY Good driver, but also that is Joes old car and has some of the most expensive Penkse Dampers (crazy money) on it and has wider rims that most of us are running 6's with, but clearly we need to UP our game!

 

See you in 2011 (for a full season), and 2010 for a few of my fav tracks.

[MadMarx]

Weren't the US works cars without windscreen?

As far I remember the US factory tuning manuals told us for TR4-6 to remove them.

 

Doesn't that count?

 

 

Cheers

Chris

[jellison]

Weren't the US works cars without windscreen?

As far I remember the US factory tuning manuals told us for TR4-6 to remove them.

 

Doesn't that count?

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Yes and all Euro TR series, UK TR Register, all that I can find bar fia series and the TSCC is not and fia series (far from it).

 

This is not fia racing, it is club racing.

=======================================================================

Indeed, see this.

 

It seems the FIA have no problems with SCCA. The elected an America as Vice President of FIA in Late 2008.

 

Craw Elected FIA Deputy President

 

Nick Craw, President of the Automobile Competition Committee for the US, has been elected as the new FIA Deputy President for Sport.

 

At its annual meeting in Paris, the FIA General Assembly, the supreme executive body of the FIA, voted unanimously for Craw's election.

 

1970s, he joined the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA), the largest amateur motor sports club in the US.

 

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/automotive/issue-14/sport/Pages/article-1b.aspx

 

This is on the FIA website

 

=========================================================================================================================

** Basically we did not vote on anything to do with Screens. It never came up.

 

I got into TR racing, wanting to race without a screen and most of the years (bar a few in Roadsport spec) I have run this way.

 

I do not believe this should be accepted, as it was never properly raised or discussed.

[alan57]

Perhapsit is me missing something, but it does seem to me that much of this actually misses the point.

 

A Championship's rules and regulations are a matter for that Championship - subject to ratification by the MSA. Even though most championships do canvas drivers' opinions on possible rule changes I do not think it is actually a requirement that any rule changes must be approved by drivers or would be drivers.

 

Surely it is always a matter for a Champioship as to which cars (or drivers) it admits?

[jellison]

Perhapsit is me missing something, but it does seem to me that much of this actually misses the point.

 

A Championship's rules and regulations are a matter for that Championship - subject to ratification by the MSA. Even though most championships do canvas drivers' opinions on possible rule changes I do not think it is actually a requirement that any rule changes must be approved by drivers or would be drivers.

 

Surely it is always a matter for a Champioship as to which cars (or drivers) it admits?

 

Alan - that is not the case as Colin always stresses at the TSCC meeting by saying "It is a Driver Championship", i.e. we have to vote for any changes.

 

This is different to International or BTCC type level Motorsport. The driver "do" have the right to vote on issue properly chaired.

 

Screen or lack of was "never dicussed at the drivers meeting".

[alan57]

The only "rights" a driver has are those actually granted by a Championship - Catch 22!!!

[MadMarx]

The rules provided by the FIA leading to this:

 

As motorsport became an everybody sport they don't like this situation and would like to have only original race cars of that period and the best would be to have the old drivers of that time too.

 

We (clubracers, normal racers with modified cars build in the last 30 years) are not really wanted. We are disturbing the lap of the gods when a Stirling Moss, David Piper, Jacky Icks, climbing into their old cars and are doing demonstration laps for the well paying high class spectators.

 

So the rules are made to close out modified cars and only the works cars remain for racing on the high class events.

 

Simple isn't it.

 

As a work around we all have to find real race cars with history like the TRS or the Le Mans TR3, a Porsche 917, 908.....then we are wanted and invited to the racing events.

 

Cheers

Chris (sorry for my incapability to explain things in English)

[Dave McDonald]

Hi everyone.

Alan, that was a very legalise sounding response about "rights" as befits your esteemed occupation! Whilst Jon Ellison and I rarely see eye to eye, he is correct in that in the past it has always been accepted practice that, in order to change the Regs. a proposal has had to be forwarded, debated at the annual drivers meeting prior to voting by the representatives at that gathering. Jon is also correct that no such matter was mentioned in even the broadest manner at this years or any previous meeting.

 

Chaps, why are all we TR people squabbling among ourselves, about what most seem to regard as an injustice?

 

Surely the Thoroughbred Sportscar Championship committee members are the ones to whom any reasoned, not emotive, responses should be being aimed. I note that there is nothing on the official Thoroughbreds Forum within the Brakehorsepower site!

 

Bearing in mind that the Regs. as issued at the moment are "Draft" it is my view that they are the thin end of a wedge to have the rule changed in the future. Call me a cynic if you like, but I believe that, with pressure from ourselves collectively, the committee will accept that the normally accepted route for Rule Changes has not been followed and relax the new imposition FOR THIS COMINBG SEASON. However, having raised the matter by this method it is then likely to be much higher profile at the end of next season. It is at that stage that I think it will be elevated to a discussion and vote at the 2010 Drivers Meeting. That is when I think we should be more worried.

 

I have trawled the web and found one or two articles, with photos, about TR4s, 5s and 6s racing in period without windscreens. Principaly these were prepared and campaigned by or on behalf of Kas Kastner and Bob Tullius, both innovative and succesful Engineer/Drivers over a period of time. In one of them Kas Kastner is referred to as US Triumph Competition Director. That qualifies as "Works" for me.

 

I have prepared a preliminary message ready to forward to Colin Jones and Pam McCarthy expressing my own reservations on this topic which I will send with the back up information later tonight. Whilst it will be my own views I suspect from the sample of opinions expressed here that it will reflect the concerns of most of us who have and wish to continue to race our cars in a trim which is covered by the Regs. as previously written. i.e. Aeroscreens are allowed. Full Stop.

 

Regards

Dave McDonald

[roy53]

Hi Dave

be aware that this subject was voted upon at a previous drivers meeting ,4or5 years ago and did not get through.

A point that confuses me is that the draft says if used by the marque on works cars,it dose not say model.As i read it the marque is TRIUMPH, 2&3 used aeroscreens so we are all ok.

I know this is not what they ment but thats how its written.

I wonder if the class c morgan models were run by the works or dose this affect them as well?

Both Alan and myself have been around thoroughbreds for far to long to be surprised by the fact that MGs dont like being beaten and it now seems that it is our turn to be restrained ,weight penalties and now screens/tops.We will just have to put up with this i guess in the end go out and try even harder,its still the closest racing championship out there and good fun and spirit amongst drivers.

Did the works never enter a 4 at le-mans?

Iam also very surprised that there is no mention regarding this on the brakehorse power web site.The photo at the top of this shows all butr 1 of the cars without roofs.

ROY

Edited December 1, 2009 by roy53

[Guest ntc]

Fascinating stuff gentlemen. I was involved in club rallying then at national level for many years and have been to quite a few of your races as a spectator I am confused though, are we talking FIA rules or MSA rules? Please excuse my ignorance.