Jersey Royal Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Hi All, Looking at re painting my engine bay, removing everything except the engine. , its not to bad maily the firewall but whilst in there do the lot. What are your collective thoughts on replacement of the clutch and brake pipes in the engine bay, with regard to the material i have seen copper pipes and shiny metal ones. But am undecided on which Plus of course a respected supplier. Your thoughts appreciated Cheers Guy Edited September 4, 2009 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Hi All, Looking at re painting my engine bay, removing everything except the engine. , its not to bad maily the firewall but whilst in there do the lot. What are your collective thoughts on replacement of the clutch and brake pipes in the engine bay, with regard to the material i have seen copper pipes and shiny metal ones. But am undecided on which Plus of course a respected supplier. Your thoughts appreciated Cheers Guy Guy my preference is copper pipes with brass ends. (I know in some countries they arent allowed but we are ) A little laquer on them will keep the shine and they are esier to get the nice correct bends on them so they look tidy (and the other bonus is fit and forget) They can be easily made up by Richleu or whoever on the Island or your good self and the brass nuts are obtainable from Automec Dont forget to go around all the engine bay seams with a nice wipe of seam sealer (not like the one at Malvern ) and have a good look at the plenum seam on the firewall. Stuart. Edited September 4, 2009 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simon iregbu Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Guy You could always make them up yourself, I re-did all of mine with the Cunifer (Copper/Nickel) pipe. I bought a length of pipe and all of the brass fittings and then measured the length of each one I took off so that I could make the new ones to the correct length. I also bought the pipe flaring kit so that I could make the ends correctly (the kit has had extensive use fixing the brake lines on my wife & sons cars). Cunifer is really easy to work with compared to steel, especially when bending by hand. To create the bends in the right place I would use the original as the template and tape one end together, then bend the new pipe to the old taping it together as I went along. Then when you fit the new pipe in the car there is only minor tweaking to do to get it to fit perfectly. I have just bought 25ft of pipe from vehicle wiring products, see link Brake Pipes Simon Edited September 4, 2009 by simon iregbu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Thanks Stuart and Simon for your replys, appreciated. I have the bending and flaring equipment from when i had to replace some of the fuel line. And good to know of two suppliers. Good for go then when the time comes Also been looking at my engine bay loom, thats also sorted with Autosparks. So just need to find an inexpensive spray man Which will be impossible in Jersey, as a matter of interest am getting a quote from my usual Bodywork chap who has worked on the car in the past. That should be shocking. Cheers Guy Edited September 4, 2009 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Another quick question. I have measured the outside diameter ofboth pipes Clutch is 6.33 mm........... so is that 3/16 (7mm)? Brake is 4.72 mm.............so is that 1/8 ? (6mm)? Have I missed something here Cheers Guy Edited September 4, 2009 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grahama Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Guy, I used the Automec copper ones, and very happy I've been with them. I personally wouldn't bother lacquering though. I use some copper polish that's the dogs doo dahs. It's called "Briliant" (one L), in fact I think I came across it via this forum. It seems to prevent tarnish almost indefinitely, and in any case, there's something rather comforting about giving the pipes the occasional rub and polish! Are you not tempted though to have the engine out after reading the article in Classics Monthly re TR engine rebuild? Now I'm giving that some serious thought...... Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Guy, I used the Automec copper ones, and very happy I've been with them. I personally wouldn't bother lacquering though. I use some copper polish that's the dogs doo dahs. It's called "Briliant" (one L), in fact I think I came across it via this forum. It seems to prevent tarnish almost indefinitely, and in any case, there's something rather comforting about giving the pipes the occasional rub and polish!Are you not tempted though to have the engine out after reading the article in Classics Monthly re TR engine rebuild? Now I'm giving that some serious thought...... Graham Hi Graham, Thanks for your tip. I havent read Classic Monthly but understand its about a Tr engine rebuild. I have just had my engine rebuilt, and it aint coming out. Perhaps i should of done it when engine was out, there again as the work was done in the Uk, they would have had to do the work. Fact is engine cost a packet, did not want to increase there work load, if you know what i mean, plus theres the personal satisfaction of saying .. I DID THAT. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PILKIE Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi Guy. Re brake/clutch pipe sizes. Yes, they are different sizes,nothing to worry about.! Why not do them in stainless steel like mine! Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi Guy. Re brake/clutch pipe sizes. Yes, they are different sizes,nothing to worry about.! Why not do them in stainless steel like mine! Dave Hi Dave, From what i can gather Stainless is hard to work with, andif you are not carefull stress cracking. So, i am playing it safe and easy I have sent of an enquiry to Automec, for them to supply me with brake and clutch pipe plus unions as required. Thanks again to All for your replys Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi ALL Am looking for a photo of a tidy looking engine bay with regard to the brake pipe runs if anyone has one. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Hi Guy, It's a little time consuming, but try browsing the 6s for sale in car & classic website, or elsewhere. Richard. P.S. Would you share with us the price for the kit quoted from Automec when you get it? Edited September 5, 2009 by Richard71 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Richard. P.S. Would you share with us the price for the kit quoted from Automec when you get it? Its just as easy (and a lot cheaper) to make up your own if you have access to a flaring tool. The Automec kits are good but you still have to make all the bends to suit anyway. Local autofactors will supply copper pipe rolls very cheaply. Just buy the brass ends from Automec and away you go. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Its just as easy (and a lot cheaper) to make up your own if you have access to a flaring tool. Hi Stuart, Yeah, I could, but buying a flaring tool for a job I'm likely only going to do once in 10yrs isn't very economical. On the other hand, it would be better to have a full roll, spare ends and the flaring tool if one makes a dog's dinner of the first or even second attempt. It's been twenty years since I made up a brake pipe. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eyetee Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) I should imagine it would be quite tricky preping engine bay with everything still in place Edited September 6, 2009 by Eyetee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Guy, I don't want to see you put in a grave. Before you decide on pipe work for the brakes read this articel about car brake plumbing http://www.dimebank.com/BrakePlumbing.html Hope the link works, very interesting reading Edited September 6, 2009 by jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hi Jean, there are plenty of scarey articles on the 'net - including about every aspect of braking systems you can imagine. Most of them have a valid point to make, they just take it too far . . . . and all too often the authors don't seem able to distinguish between opinion and factual observations. I've seen Kunifer in normal useage for at least 35 years - offhand I can recall one instance of a Kunifer pipe failing, in the particular instance because of a poorly made flare. I know a lot of people in the motor trade, have done since I was a lad, they're always keen to regale you with accounts of the latest unusual failings or breakages that have crossed their path. Bear in mind that Kunifer pipe is pretty much standard on classic car replacement, and has been for a generation. OK, I've heard the odd apocryphal tales of the possible weaknesses of Kunifer hydraulic piping, but not first hand accounts of such failure. How many first hand accounts have I heard of steel brake pipes failing as a result of corrosion, and/or flexible rubber pipes failing as a result of age ? Hundreds, not dozens, that's for sure. Finally, it's amazing how often, when you check the authorship of scarey articles, that the perpetrator appears to have at least an indirect association with whichever product is being put forward as the preferable alternative. Nothing new there, then - however, I have no idea of the background of the author of this article to which you are drawing our attention, so no such suggestion is implied on this occasion. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Right Alec, I do not object Kunifer, it's very strong stuff and will cope with the pressure of the system on our cars. I just have very strong reservations with concern to copper or alloys containing a rather high amount of copper. You find this kind of piping mostly on polisher's cars. But in my view good brakes are more important than the best engine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hi Chaps, Thanks Jean for the article, i have read it before somewhile ago, and then i had come to various conclusions following further reading. Alec thanks for your comments too. I think for me it will be Kunifer as opposed to pure copper, but i can understand why others prefer and use copper. Tniking about though the brake lines under the car all appear to be copper. Ummm Food for thought. Regards Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hi Guy You could also use aeroquip in the engine bay look nice to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Webster Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Copper piping gained popularity I suspect due to it's ease of use. Indeed, I once completely re-piped a Land Rover with an Automec kit. It had the virtue that it could be easily bent about to thread it around the car without any dismantling for access. And anyone knows how the brake pipes run around the power steering box on a Landy will apreciate this is indeed a virtue. However the kit was not quite perfect and sometimes I had to weave the pipes round a bit to lose an odd couple of inches in length. If making from scratch, copper also has the advantage that vitually any cheap and nasty flaring tool will do the job. 8/10 times ending up with a cheap and nasty flare, or stress forming grip marks in the tube. Fortunately the flares will deform (or should that be form) on tightening and make a leak tight seal quite easily. Frankly though, despite all these advantages, for my money the best pipe is made of Kunifer. This means that a proper (expensive) flaring tool must be used because the el cheapos just cannot hack it. Copper is OK and demonstrates how much you like polishing, but Kunifer implies it is done by someone who appreciates quality. Lights blue touch paper and stands well back. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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