Wholly un-impressed!!

[gjfoote]

More of a comment than a question?

 

I have just received today, my awaited package from one of our well known parts suppliers - beginning with M!

 

Not really wishing to 'rubbish' their service, however Im less than impressed.

 

The main bit of the order was a pair of sprung seat bases for the TR3 - these werent exactly cheap at £140 ish quid - but they certainly are nasty!

They dont fit by a mile, the steel rim is as soft as sh!! (presumably so one can attempt to re-adjust the appalling shape??) and all the sharp edges of the clips face outwards!

 

Also in the box were replacement throttle linkages - the machining on these look as though it was cut with flint - blunt at that! and as for the 'ball and socket' joints - free moving is not the expression that comes to mind!!

 

The new starter solenoid doesnt look too bad though - just a shame its the wrong one!

 

Anyone else have any comments or similar experiences?

 

Cheers

 

Grumpy Graham!

[angelfj]

More of a comment than a question?

 

I have just received today, my awaited package from one of our well known parts suppliers - beginning with M!

 

Not really wishing to 'rubbish' their service, however Im less than impressed.

 

The main bit of the order was a pair of sprung seat bases for the TR3 - these werent exactly cheap at £140 ish quid - but they certainly are nasty!

They dont fit by a mile, the steel rim is as soft as sh!! (presumably so one can attempt to re-adjust the appalling shape??) and all the sharp edges of the clips face outwards!

 

Also in the box were replacement throttle linkages - the machining on these look as though it was cut with flint - blunt at that! and as for the 'ball and socket' joints - free moving is not the expression that comes to mind!!

 

The new starter solenoid doesnt look too bad though - just a shame its the wrong one!

 

Anyone else have any comments or similar experiences?

 

Cheers

 

Grumpy Graham!

 

Graham: You have a good reason for your grumpiness. This issue has been discussed here on a number of occasions. Regardless of the supplier (in most cases) the parts being flogged at us for good money seem to get worse each year. The problem is complex. There are fewer and fewer places that can supply parts that are of acceptable quality and at an affordable price because the volume is low.

 

I personally have been the victim of this during the extended restoration of my 3A. Poor quality parts are but one reason why this car has taken so long to finish. We have gotten into the habit of ordering parts from multiple suppliers simultaneously. I know this sounds crazy, but this is an attempt to get something acceptable and the process works sometimes. The latest issue is the quality of wire-type hose clamps. You wouldn't think something so simple would be a problem, but the quality has been real bad and we have actually received examples that are rubbish from multiple suppliers, including "M".

 

Sorry to ramble, but you struck a nerve!

[RogerH]

Hi Graham,

only grumpy !! thats not bad. Clearly you need to contact the supplier and state your point. Next step is to return the items M are rather good at accepting returns.

Most of the suppliers get their stock from M but go that extra mile by doing a quality check (usually) this ensures that you get what you want (probably).

One or two suppliers source their own spares which are quarried on the Somerset flats.

 

Keep with it the bits are out there.

 

Roger

[JJC]

Graham, You're really not alone. I have found Moss very receptive to criticism but you could argue they might do better in the first place. I have queried a few parts from them and I was told the stock was withdrawn. My worry is, because I'm not an engineer I can't pick up a new gearbox part and reject it as substandard just by looking at it. I'd rebuild the box with it, trusting the quality of the part, and then suffer a failure a couple of thousand miles down the road when the year's guarantee has run out. Maybe the quality of parts is something the New Spares Fund might look at. After all I suspect Triumph did some quality control on the production line. Our suppliers don't have the feedback from building several cars a day to rely on. So maybe they need some help. Or maybe the forum should have a section entitled "Duff Parts". Incidentally there was a thread on vertical links along these lines recently. A few years ago I replaced the vertical links on the 2 and they were far too tight. Contacting Moss I had a very interesting half hour chat with Pete Buckles (it was a few years ago) and wound up understanding more about vertical links than you would think possible. Not only that, Pete had them lapped in for me and they've been perfect ever since. JJC

[John Soffe]

I have just fitted a new wiring loom to my 3A, the first in 50 years and I have to say all has gone well - that is till I needed to replace the gauge lights on the small panel. I tried to remove the old ones and they broke in trying. A call to "M" found two and they duly arrived, but I was unable to fit the bulbs into them. A call to Jeff discovered that although they had supplied hundreds of these in the past the latest batch - from America - were not finished right and he had spoken to the supplier to the effect that until they were right no more were to be sent. He asked that mine were put in the bin as they were no good if sent back and I would get a full refund. I managed to mend the old ones by drilling out the rivets and reassembling using 2ba brass nuts and bolts. As always a bit of lateral thinking would have saved me the effort of ordering new parts!!

 

John Soffe

[Jack Horner]

Its not just the quality of parts that we are being supplied with, its the service you receive.

 

I ordered a new 321 ignition, or is that 123 ignition, from SC Parts over a month ago. I still have not received it. I have called every Friday for a month and have been lied to three times. The person I spoke to would say, it went in the post on Thursday and should be with me early next week, I had his word that it was posted. He told me this two weeks running. Last week I was told by another person, that the one on the shelf was broken and they were awaiting a new one. Guess what, it should be with me early this week, it's still a no show.

[david ferry]

Jack,

 

That begs the question why you are still waiting for them to send it to you?

 

Personally, I would have gone elsewhere after the 1st deliverance of possibly not entirely correct information!

 

David

[Jack Horner]

Jack,

 

That begs the question why you are still waiting for them to send it to you?

 

Personally, I would have gone elsewhere after the 1st deliverance of possibly not entirely correct information!

 

David

 

Where else can you order one from?

 

Just called them again, it will be with me on Wednesday. Lets see.

 

Regards Jack

[stuart]

Where else can you order one from?

 

Just called them again, it will be with me on Wednesday. Lets see.

 

Regards Jack

I stopped dealing with SC quite a while ago for similar reasons. It does seem to have gone downhill since the Germans took them over.

Stuart.

[Jack Horner]

Fiting my thin belt kit from Moss today, Alternator pully is too long to allow for a nice straight line on the belt, and the hole in it is too tight to fit on the alternator which they provided. I had the steel pully and an alloy one for the alternator. When comparing them the alloy one is 1mm longer than the steel one. So set to work on the alloy one to make it fit. Once it was to the correct size I found that the alternator fan does not fit correctly, as the hole has not been put in the middle of it.

 

Not having a great time at the moment, have these people not heard of quality control.

[Menno van Rij]

I stopped dealing with SC quite a while ago for similar reasons. It does seem to have gone downhill since the Germans took them over.

 

Phew! Just in time! I was planning to buy a shipload of 123ingitions from them! Consider this: SC Parts and Limora in Holland and Germany are the same company. SC Parts' webshop is in GBP, Limora's is in euros. Guess what: the 123ignitions in the SC Parts webshop are about 100 euros cheaper then the same ones on the Limora pages! (due to the weak Pound off course), but the price difference is too good to be true. Now I know why: lack of service!

 

I will not deal with these people!

 

Enjoy your weekend! (Not in my TR tomorrow: one of my kids is participating in a cross country run, so I'm the designated driver, mental coach, fan club, money source for ice cream on the way home ) etc.

 

Menno

[Guest ntc]

Phew! Just in time! I was planning to buy a shipload of 123ingitions from them! Consider this: SC Parts and Limora in Holland and Germany are the same company. SC Parts' webshop is in GBP, Limora's is in euros. Guess what: the 123ignitions in the SC Parts webshop are about 100 euros cheaper then the same ones on the Limora pages! (due to the weak Pound off course), but the price difference is too good to be true. Now I know why: lack of service!

 

I will not deal with these people!

 

Enjoy your weekend! (Not in my TR tomorrow: one of my kids is participating in a cross country run, so I'm the designated driver, mental coach, fan club, money source for ice cream on the way home ) etc.

 

Menno

 

A good idea Menno that's all I can say here

 

Regards

Neil

[Jaguar]

Its not just the quality of parts that we are being supplied with, its the service you receive.

 

I ordered a new 321 ignition, or is that 123 ignition, from SC Parts over a month ago. I still have not received it. I have called every Friday for a month and have been lied to three times. The person I spoke to would say, it went in the post on Thursday and should be with me early next week, I had his word that it was posted. He told me this two weeks running. Last week I was told by another person, that the one on the shelf was broken and they were awaiting a new one. Guess what, it should be with me early this week, it's still a no show.

Never never never never never never deal with SC..they are absolute rubbish and dont deserve to get on in buisness, i stopped dealing with them years ago.

[Norman D]

On a positive note I have just bought a pair of boot hinges on ebay from "Moss Seconds" for 12 quid and they are great! The £8 postage was a bit steep though.

[RogerH]

Hi JJC,

Triumph quality control was also a little interesting on the production line so I have been told.

If a panel didn't fit on the line it was put aside and the next panel off the pile would be fitted.

All the panels put to one side would make their way to spares stockists as the repair garages had a bit more time to bash them into shape.

Mind you they probably started out about the right shape unlike some of the recent imports.

 

Roger

[angelfj]

Hi JJC,

Triumph quality control was also a little interesting on the production line so I have been told.

If a panel didn't fit on the line it was put aside and the next panel off the pile would be fitted.

All the panels put to one side would make their way to spares stockists as the repair garages had a bit more time to bash them into shape.

Mind you they probably started out about the right shape unlike some of the recent imports.

 

Roger

 

Roger, they must have amassed quite an inventory of wrinkly panel by the time the tools were renewed at TS60000 , give or take a few hundred.

Edited March 23, 2009 by angelfj

[JJC]

I'm a bit more interested in this now because I'm about to start rebuilding my TR4 engine when I surface from under the dash board and all that technicoloured wiring. Once again I'm beginning to ponder where will I go for parts? Like a new oil pump, or pistons and liners, shells, even gaskets. It's a real pain not being able to rely confidently on the quality of suppliers parts. Between us we must know what not to buy through collective hard experience, but it's accessing that information that seems to be difficult.

JJC

[Menno van Rij]

I'm a bit more interested in this now because I'm about to start rebuilding my TR4 engine when I surface from under the dash board and all that technicoloured wiring. Once again I'm beginning to ponder where will I go for parts? Like a new oil pump, or pistons and liners, shells, even gaskets. It's a real pain not being able to rely confidently on the quality of suppliers parts. Between us we must know what not to buy through collective hard experience, but it's accessing that information that seems to be difficult.

JJC

 

I've been searching the 'net collecting parts for over 4 years. I started gathering parts 2 years before I started the restorartion of my TR. Some parts are an insult! E.g. the waterpump. Luckily there are other sources to buy from: TRTony is just an example.

 

And I think that you're better off repairing the old body than welding in these so called original bodyparts from main suppliers: having them fitted correctly cost more time (and money) than making your own bodyparts.

If you are not into concours restoration, there are plenty of other sources to buy from: uprated suspension, HVDA gearboxes (=Toyota), LandCruiser clutch parts etc. I even started a topic about the best pistons and liners!

 

But on the other hand, things are relative: when I took my car for the first test drive after completing the restoration, the brand new Bosch fan relay packed up! New, German quality... who would have thought that!

 

Menno

[angelfj]

I've been searching the 'net collecting parts for over 4 years. I started gathering parts 2 years before I started the restorartion of my TR. Some parts are an insult! E.g. the waterpump. Luckily there are other sources to buy from: TRTony is just an example.

 

And I think that you're better off repairing the old body than welding in these so called original bodyparts from main suppliers: having them fitted correctly cost more time (and money) than making your own bodyparts.

If you are not into concours restoration, there are plenty of other sources to buy from: uprated suspension, HVDA gearboxes (=Toyota), LandCruiser clutch parts etc. I even started a topic about the best pistons and liners!

 

But on the other hand, things are relative: when I took my car for the first test drive after completing the restoration, the brand new Bosch fan relay packed up! New, German quality... who would have thought that!

 

Menno

 

This may seem a bit extreme, but many folks collect parts cars for just the reasons that you have noted!

[Menno van Rij]

This may seem a bit extreme, but many folks collect parts cars for just the reasons that you have noted!

 

Well, in hindsight... I think it's a very solid reason to collect parts cars. After all, a donor car gives you plenty of parts to practice on too! E.g. I bought an engine for my Saab 96 for 25 euros last year . The engine was knackered, but I took the complete engine apart and put it all back together again. In the end, it saves me money when I'll rebuild the original engine.

 

The somber part of the whole topic is off course that buying from a (well reputated) supplier is like entering the casino: lots of shiny things, lots of noise but in the end, you loose. The buyer is not taken seriously. I can see that the anecdote about ill-fitting panels is a good laugh, but why should we 50 odd years later have to suffer from that lack of quality control. The supplier should perform some kind of quality control! And not act like the heir of British Leyland.

 

Let's take the well known rotor problem or the bad quality clutch plate. When we buy these parts, the seller looks us in the eyes with confidence and tells us: "It looks different, but we sell lots of these" (Sounds familiar?). We all suffer from the lack of quality control or the lack of interest. Then a guy like Martin Jay stands up and tells us that it's possible to obtain a good rotor for the same price as the lousy one. Why not in the first place from a well reputated supplier. (And perhaps I should stop writing 'well reputated' from now on!)

 

There's one solution I mentioned before: the Parts Program. I intend to donate an amount of 50 GBP on the day my car gets 50 years old (Nov.12). When everybody donates this year the amount that suits the age of his cars, thinks should be great for the Program!

 

Menno

[stuart]

There's one solution I mentioned before: the Parts Program. I intend to donate an amount of 50 GBP on the day my car gets 50 years old (Nov.12). When everybody donates this year the amount that suits the age of his cars, thinks should be great for the Program!

 

Menno

Good idea Menno that would give the fund some financial clout.

Stuart

[Alec Pringle]

It's worth remembering that when all else fails, fear can be a great motivator. I don't know which genius student of human nature first came up with "don't get mad, get even", but it's a pretty good line.

 

If the guy behind the parts counter knowingly lies through his teeth, then he has no right to be surprised if a frustrated customer returns and relocates a couple of said teeth. The lying git will either mend his ways, or find alternative employment.

 

If whatever corporate parts specialist insists on retailing inadequate components, then that company has no right to be surprised if frustrated customers insist on alerting the rest of that particular marque community to the failings of said supplier.

 

Over the years I've heard countless discussions about being fair to suppliers, and I've chipped in to more than a few in support of the specialists - been there, done that, I've had experience of commissioning small run component manufacture. Believe me, it ain't easy.

 

Fine, a problem surfaces, give the supplier the opportunity to rectify the situation. If the supplier doesn't, or persists in peddling bullshit lines of 'the first time we've heard of that problem' variety, when you personally know 6 other customers with the same problem . . . then get even and shout it from the rooftops.

 

There's only one valid argument against upsetting suppliers - advertising revenue. Commercial magazines don't, generally speaking, wish to upset suppliers who pay good money for sizeable advertisements - no matter how badly they might treat customers. As long as the conspiracy of silence is maintained, each complainant is isolated, divide and conquer. The punter is stuffed, but he keeps on buying the mag. That's capitalism for you.

 

It would be a pretty poor show if club magazine editors and club forum moderators took the same approach - it's the members who ultimately foot the bills, the same blokes who are being ripped off by inadequate suppliers.

 

Given the choice, I'd suggest that an average car club member would put component quality first - even if that means less advertising revenue and a less glamorous club mag as a result of reduced advertising revenue.

 

Which is more important to the survival of any marque - a glossy mag, or components you can fit and forget ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[angelfj]

Well, in hindsight... I think it's a very solid reason to collect parts cars. After all, a donor car gives you plenty of parts to practice on too! E.g. I bought an engine for my Saab 96 for 25 euros last year . The engine was knackered, but I took the complete engine apart and put it all back together again. In the end, it saves me money when I'll rebuild the original engine.

 

The somber part of the whole topic is off course that buying from a (well reputated) supplier is like entering the casino: lots of shiny things, lots of noise but in the end, you loose. The buyer is not taken seriously. I can see that the anecdote about ill-fitting panels is a good laugh, but why should we 50 odd years later have to suffer from that lack of quality control. The supplier should perform some kind of quality control! And not act like the heir of British Leyland.

 

Let's take the well known rotor problem or the bad quality clutch plate. When we buy these parts, the seller looks us in the eyes with confidence and tells us: "It looks different, but we sell lots of these" (Sounds familiar?). We all suffer from the lack of quality control or the lack of interest. Then a guy like Martin Jay stands up and tells us that it's possible to obtain a good rotor for the same price as the lousy one. Why not in the first place from a well reputated supplier. (And perhaps I should stop writing 'well reputated' from now on!)

 

There's one solution I mentioned before: the Parts Program. I intend to donate an amount of 50 GBP on the day my car gets 50 years old (Nov.12). When everybody donates this year the amount that suits the age of his cars, thinks should be great for the Program!

 

Menno

 

Menno, the casino analogy is very good and accurate. As for folks like Martin Jay, all I can say is there are too few. One thought that I had and have offered to two of the three major suppliers over here, is to have a two tier parts quality system. The standard parts would be what is supplied now and a premium quality part would be available for say 30 percent more money. The premium part would have had 100 percent inspection and sign off that it meets the required specification, etc. To make a long story short, no one was interested. I was told "off the record" by an employee on the inside that they laughed at the idea. A comment was said , "why should we do that if we can continue to sell the normal rubbish".

[Rhodri]

Call me cynical ,Frank, but it wouldn't be long before the suppliers were selling standard parts and adding the 30% extra if they found punters would pay that price!

 

Rod

[angelfj]

Call me cynical ,Frank, but it wouldn't be long before the suppliers were selling standard parts and adding the 30% extra if they found punters would pay that price!

 

Rod

 

Cynical? Well, perhaps but definitely realistic!