aolesnicky Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 recently had a flat on my 4 and had to change my first tyre on splined hubs and I got to thinking about the L and R hand thread arrangement on these wire wheel cars I presume the RH side having LH threads is intended so the forward motion of the car tends to keep the spinner / hub nut tightened rather than undo it. However I have thought about two things that dont make sense and hope someone can explain it or confirm it Firstly, the rear axle half shafts driven by the motor drive the wheels. It makes sense that the hub nut on the rhs of the car is left hand thread as forward motion of the car would tend to tighten the the hub thread into the hub nut. On the front however the hubs are not driven by the motor but rather the hubs are driven by the forward motion of the car and the obligatory forward turning of the wheels. To my thinking this would tend to unscrew the front LH screw hub nut on the front RH side hub - especially on braking as the hub (attatched to the brake disk) is being retarded. The same situation occurs on the LH side of the car with the RH screw hubs. My argument is that the RHS rear and LHS front hubs should be LH thread and LHS rear and RHS front should be normal or RH thread. - but read on secondly - the splines connecting the hubs to the wire wheels would surely prohibit any relative rotation between the hub and the wheel so any of these tightening up or unscrewing the hub nut effects on driving forward described above would not occur at all and all that the hub nut does in this case is hold the wheel on the splined hub and stop it from falling off due to lateral /outward forces. In which case why have left and right hand threads at all?? If you take the time to think about it I am sure it makes sense - so can anyone explian the reason for L and RH threads and why they are positioned on the car where they are?? Thanks andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hi Andrew, you should not try thinking about such things. There are better things to do - beer drinking, doughnut scoffing etc. How ever back to your question. It is not the forward motion or drive that is the problem it is the possible epicyclic motion of the wheel on the cone faces that may unscrew the spinner as the spinner is one part of the epicyclic bearing. This can happen at front or rear as it is a function of the tyre/wheel against the cones. If the spinner was guaranteed damn tight then nothing would happen (I shouldn't have said that) but if the spinner is not tight or becomes loose(ish) then it could well undo fairly rapidly. There was quite a good posting on this a few months back. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aolesnicky Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 gotcha makes sense thanks andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 It is all beyond my ken. After driving my 4A from Melbourne to Canberra (about 4-500 miles) I subsequently found the spinners marked 'left' were on the right side, and vice versa. Just before I started pulling it to bits, I swapped all the splined hubs over so that 'left' was left and 'right' was right. Towards the end of my subsequent test drive I heard a nice musical ring and spotted the driver side front spinner bouncing along the road behind me. I was able to pull off the road, collect it and hammer it back on, but I couldn't stop the brain(?) synapses linking up and preparing for a nervous 'tic' on any future outings. As I thought that I had tightened it up adequately I'm currently at a loss as to what the answer is, when/if I eventually get it back together. I think I might make up a spinner spanner and try to work out a torque figure; my copper hammer belting is obviously too imprecise to get it right. The thought of losing a spinner at motorway speed in the outside lane sets up the 'tic' every now and then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) Hi Littlejim, the lefthand threads go on the righthand side of the car and the RH threads go on the LH side of the car. In theory if they were a little bit loose they should tighten up. But I wouldn't recommend it. People swear by the copper mallet and won't touch any of the fancy spanners. At the end of the day you could wire lock the spinners on. My friends Morgan has always had the spinners on the wrong side but has never had a problem Roger Edited June 12, 2008 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I think I might make up a spinner spanner and try to work out a torque figure; my copper hammer belting is obviously too imprecise to get it right. The tool you're thinking about allready exists. Take a look here The site is in Dutch, but the pictures are clear. If you want some parts of the site translated into English, just send me a PM. I've found no torque figures on the pages of this website. Interesting though what we (TR drivers, that is) think is the right torque for these spinners! After all, hammering the spinner is also a very crude way of tightening the wheels... Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 But a big hammer works, and always has done ! And if you think having spinners on the wrong side is foolproof, just ask Hogie - 20 years on, and we still don't forget his TR 3-wheeler on the M5 !!! Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 My '34 Lanchester had 5-stud wire wheels, with Left & Right thread nuts (as did Damlers of the time). But the ten nuts marked L went on the left, and t'others on t'other. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
67_gt6 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) Two moderate blows with a copper/hide hammer (with the wheel off the ground) is all you need to tighten the spinners, provided you have them on the correct side of the car - I did thousands of miles in a GT6 like this and the spinners had always tightened up through driving when I came to take them off again ie requiring 5 or 6 hefty blows to loosen (again wheel off ground otherwise the shock is not going through the spinner ear) andy Edited June 13, 2008 by 67_gt6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) ...the spinners had always tightened up through driving when I came to take them off again ie requiring 5 or 6 hefty blows to loosen (again wheel off ground otherwise the shock is not going through the spinner ear) I wish I'd remembered to jack the car up first when I was struggling to get a wheel off Lynda's car a couple of days ago , but at least I remembered when refitting it. Now, has anyone got a fool-proof method of undoing the splined adaptor nuts, without an assistant or appropriate piece of four-by-two to jam the brake pedal down? Supplementary observation: On the hub I was trying to investigate, one of these nuts was a slightly larger size across the flats than the other three. I can't remember which sockets fitted now but both were A/F rather than metric - probably 11/16" and 3/4", or 5/8" and 11/16". I haven't looked at the other corners yet, but I am wondering what I'm likely to find when I do Edited June 13, 2008 by BrianC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
67_gt6 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Now, has anyone got a fool-proof method of undoing the splined adaptor nuts, without an assistant or appropriate piece of four-by-two to jam the brake pedal down? Brian, you could withdraw the wheel from the splined adaptor just enough to allow you to get a spanner on the nuts then lower the car so that the wheel prevents the hub from turning. It's a bit of a hassle though compared to jamming the pedal down. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Brian, my head's spinning from all this LH/RH stuff, but here's a concept. Reverse the wire wheel (so the offset is out) and slip it onto the spline far enough to get a grip. Lower the car so the tyre just touches the ground to stop the spline turning. Get behind the wheel with a ring spanner to loosen the spline attaching nuts. It might need one of those flat combo ring and open ended spanners. The application behind this was how to remove a front spline, one up, when a steel wheel is used for the spare. Haven't tested this idea yet, but I'll prove it up tomorrow. Cheers, Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
67_gt6 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Brian, my head's spinning from all this LH/RH stuff, but here's a concept. Reverse the wire wheel (so the offset is out) and slip it onto the spline far enough to get a grip. Lower the car so the tyre just touches the ground to stop the spline turning. Haven't tested this idea yet, but I'll prove it up tomorrow. Viv, this does work. Reversing the wheel so that the offset is out is indeed necessary and was the crucial part of the instructions which I negated to include in my post! andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks Andy and Viv, I will try this next time (even if I have an assistant, it will be good to test it for future solo jobs). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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