A few questions

[Lord Flashart]

Ok,

 

I've got most of the cars problems sorted out.

 

The misfire was actually dirty fuel. I had checked the float bowls and they were full and clean, but as an act of desperation last night I checked again.

Bowls full. I thought I'd check the needle valves and one was blocked! finally a definate fault! Fuel must have been getting through and was enough to fill the bowls at low revs. Then the flow would have been too low at high revs to keep up hence the misfire!

 

Next problem.

 

I've set the timing using the method described in the Hayes manual but a few things don't make sence. The manual decribes turning the distributed anti-clockwise until the points just close. Is this a printing error or am I just not getting it. When I turn my distributer anti-clockwise it opens the points??

 

The car is now running and not pinking, so I intend to keep advancing until it does then backing off. Which was do I turn the distributer to advance? I thing I know but I have to say the Haynes manual is confusion me!

 

The idle is also a little uneven. I think it's probably just the carb set up. How smooth do these engines idle? The tach is bouncing between 900 and 1100 rpm.

 

 

Cheers all.

 

Hopefully I can start enjoying the car now!

 

Flash

[Don Elliott]

Good to hear you got rid of the dirt in the jets. It may come back until you get all the dirt out.

 

I turn the knurled adjuster in the direction that advances, till it pinks at low revs in 3rd of 4th gear on acceleration, then I back off (retard) with the knurled adjuster.

 

I had an erratic idle for the last two or three years, but since I re-built my engine last spring, and the expert engine re-builder who I had look at the parts told me I had been running too rich. He honed the liners, I put in new rings and I leaned out the carbs until the plugs became tan on the tips and brown to sooty black on the outer rims. My idle has really settled down.

 

I had thought that maybe the brass thottle shafts had become worn. This is often suggested as a cause of erratic idle. It would if it let in extra air via the worn shafts at idle, but now mine is so regular, I think that I may have solved the idle problem. But I plan to test that with an idea from Andrew (or was it Nigel) who suggested squirting heavy oil of the ends of the throttle shafts to act as a seal for a while to see if the idle will become even more stable. Then, of course, the next step would be to dismantle the carbs and check the shafts visually.

 

But it's going so nicely. - over 250 miles this weekend !

[Rhodri]

Flash, to advance the timing turn the distributor body the opposite way to the rotation of the rotor- can't remember which way the rotor turns !

[Lord Flashart]

Cheers Guys!

 

Rhodri, cheers mate, thats what I thought. The rotor turns anti-clockwise so advance is clockwise. Like I said, Haynes manual confusing me.

 

Don, I thing you are right, it's a mixture problem causing the rough idle. I'll dig out the colour tune tomorrow and set them up.

 

I have to say, despite almost setting fire to the car with frustration over this last week it's very satisfying when you fix it!! I suppose I'm remembering why I drive these things. Have to say had the car up to 50mph and that was an interesting experiance! I'll not be trying to get it up to the advertised top speed of 100mph. Death trap!

[marvmul]

Turning the distributor clockwise is increasing the advance definitely. Also to get at the position where the points are opening, you have to turn the body clockwise till you hear or see a spark at the points (ignition on) : with the crank at the point of the intended static advance (i.e. 10° BTDC or wathever) and after setting the right gap on the points, turn the distributor clockwise till you hear and/or see a spark, or alternatively, till the test bulb starts glowing, then fix the distributor at this position. "Giving more and more advance till you get pinking" : there is nothing wrong with it, but you have to check the total advance : static + distibutor : if this is too much, high speed knocking can occur : this is not audible in most cases and can burn a hole in a piston in no time. I.e. 35° degrees total advance is surely too much. The distributor advance is stamped on the advance mechanism : it is stated in distributor degrees, so you have to multiply the figure with too. Often the advance is altered by filing or adding a blob of solder : then you can not rely on the advance figure of course. A stroboscope light is very useful and much more reliable to check the total advance. It will show also if the ignition timing is erratic : ideally the mark on the pulley (a white line) should remain steady over the whole rev range : not easy to achieve that in most cases!

[Andrew Smith]

.......Have to say had the car up to 50mph and that was an interesting experiance! I'll not be trying to get it up to the advertised top speed of 100mph. Death trap!

 

In what way?

 

The 3A should be stable at 50 and any speed up to 100 if it's been properly sorted. Is your steering and suspension ok? If so, it might be worth just checking your tyre pressures. I run 26 and 28psi and this seems fine, although 'some say' that 24psi front is a better choice, but it makes my steering too heavy at low speed.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Lord Flashart]

Thanks again guys.

 

Andrew, I thing you are probably right about the tyre pressures. At 50 the fromt end felt very bouncy.I need to check the pressures and the dampers. But At least I can finally drive the thing!

 

Off today to the Northumberland County Show with the wife and baby so no tinkering until later.

 

Flash

[Dick]

If you find that the handling of your car is 'interesting' at 50mph there is something very wrong with it.

 

Mine will cruise all day at any speed......usually the faster the better.

 

A speed that it seems to like where everthing settles down and appears in harmony is 4000rpm in top overdrive. On a private track of course!!.....A policeman stopped me many years ago and politely said 'Nice car....would it be possible for it to go a little slower our Granada was struggling to catch up'.

 

I also don't get shuttle shake which I know plagues some cars.

 

My car is by no means perfect but goes, steers and stops well.

 

Even in average condition these cars are vice-less. (wet roads excluded).

 

They are simple in design and are made out of robust components that had years of testing in other Triumph cars (Renowns, Mayflowers, Vangards, Roadsters, Fergy. Tractors etc before someone had the idea of re-configuring the components to make a TR.

 

And even in TR form apart from disc brakes and a change of rear axle not much changed in the nearly 10 years of side screen production run, which must be a testimony to having 'got it right'.

 

Get it sorted and it will be a pleasure to drive.

 

Regards Dick.

[angelfj]

If you find that the handling of your car is 'interesting' at 50mph there is something very wrong with it.

 

Mine will cruise all day at any speed......usually the faster the better.

 

A speed that it seems to like where everthing settles down and appears in harmony is 4000rpm in top overdrive. On a private track of course!!.....A policeman stopped me many years ago and politely said 'Nice car....would it be possible for it to go a little slower our Granada was struggling to catch up'.

 

I also don't get shuttle shake which I know plagues some cars.

 

My car is by no means perfect but goes, steers and stops well.

 

Even in average condition these cars are vice-less. (wet roads excluded).

 

They are simple in design and are made out of robust components that had years of testing in other Triumph cars (Renowns, Mayflowers, Vangards, Roadsters, Fergy. Tractors etc before someone had the idea of re-configuring the components to make a TR.

 

And even in TR form apart from disc brakes and a change of rear axle not much changed in the nearly 10 years of side screen production run, which must be a testimony to having 'got it right'.

 

Get it sorted and it will be a pleasure to drive.

 

Regards Dick.

 

Dick: I find your reply very reassuring as my 3A is nearing completion of a 7 year restoration. Can you tell us more about your TR, year, model , commission number?

 

cheers

[Lord Flashart]

Dick,

 

It was a pleasure to drive, just didn't feel right at 50. It was on less than idea roads and it may be just be me getting used to the car. I suspect that it is alot to do with tyre presures and maybe the steering is not quite right. The car has not been driven for 25 years and I have just got it back on the road so these things are to be expected!

 

Cheers for all the help guys

 

Flash

[stuart]

It might be an idea to check and see if there is any oil left in the steering box as well. That can make a lot of difference. Usually a well set up sidescreen car should be pretty happy all the way to a ton no problem. (Sorry officer) My last 3 would run "hands off" at that speed with no drift at all as will my 4a.

Stuart.

[jonlar]

Hi Flash, driving a 40 -50 years old car with cart springs and a live rear axle is whole different ball game to the modern Euroboxes (which most of us have to drive everyday) with traction control, ABS and modern suspension......................................

[BrianC]

If you find that the handling of your car is 'interesting' at 50mph there is something very wrong with it.

...

Even in average condition these cars are vice-less. (wet roads excluded).

...

Get it sorted and it will be a pleasure to drive.

 

 

Not quite vice-less, but when I think back to the way I drove my first TR3A, which was a fairly typical 15-year old multi-owner used and abused sports-car in the '70s), it's a wonder I survived. I guess the adrenaline and quick reactions of my younger self kept me out of trouble (once I had replaced the lethal mix of Michelin X tyres on one axle and XASs on the other with XASs all round), despite the sudden switches between understeer and oversteer.

 

However, one day on a fast right-hand bend, the car decided to steer itself from the rear-end. Result was a lengthy off-road excursion across the grass and violent side-impact into a concrete fence post. Fortunately no-one was injured and the car was still driveable, although steering on the twisty country roads homewards was interesting to say the least.

 

When we got home, it was found that the right-hand spring hanger had pulled out of the chassis. Whether this was the cause of the problem, or a result of the impact is not absolutely certain, but almost certainly the former. Several years later, when buying some parts from an ex-TR owner locally, I mentioned the accident and it turned out that he had owned the car many years before and had had that rear spring hanger welded-up.

 

When my current TR3A was rebuilt, I had originally planned on using one of the Revington integrated road/rally kits about which I have heard good reports. These are available with a choice of bushes, depending on how much comfort you want to sacrifice. However, I wanted to experience a car close to the way it would have been when new and then upgrade it if necessary to suit my requirements.

 

In the end, since TRGB were rebuilding my car, I just told them I wanted a fast road/rally setup with decent ground clearance for country roads. The result is a combination of uprated springs, shock absorbers, rubber, nylon and poly bushes which seem to work fine. We have only done 1300 miles so far, but much of this was on 'interesting' Norfolk & Suffolk country roads (some more like tracks) on the Sporting Bears MC 'Rumble in the East', and on cross-country routes to Prescott and similar. So far, I'm amazed at how well and predictably it seems to handle and suspect I won't need to alter much, but this may change as my confidence grows and the engine is fully run-in.

 

I don't have anti-roll bars, although I do plan to fit my SAH front ARB at some stage. I'm not sure a rear ARB is of much value for everyday use but I'm open to persuasion.

 

Even without any mods, provided all suspension and steering parts are in good order, and the chassis is reasonably straight, I would agree that the car should be perfectly driveable within today's ludicrous speed-limits.

[Lord Flashart]

Jonlar mate,

 

I'm comparing it to my previous MGA, MG midget, and MG TD and Austin Healy frogeye. Not moderns.

 

Hey Guys I'm not trying to be down on the TR. Having never owned one before I'm just trying to find out how it should drive.

 

Like I said in a previous post, it's not been on the road for 25 years so I expect a few problems.

 

Flash

 

 

Moderns!! As if!!!

[Andrew Smith]

........Having never owned one before I'm just trying to find out how it should drive.

It might be worth popping down to your local Group to see if you could drive one that's properly set up, at least that will give an idea of what you’re aiming for?

 

Just a thought…….

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Flash,

 

Andrew is spot-on, have a go in a well sorted more-or-less standard TR as a yardstick. It'll help no end.

 

Having driven all of the cars you mention (TD, A, Midget and Frogeye), any sidescreen TR should leave them for dead in all respects, except possibly looks - MGs were arguably better-looking ! Even a twinkie can't realistically hold a candle to a sidescreen TR, even if kept going long enough to form an opinion, which it probably wouldn't.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Lord Flashart]

Hi all

 

Purchased myself a timing light!

 

Anyone know what the advance should be at say 1000rpm?

Haynes manual suggests 4degrees static but I'm guessing at idle it'll be higher.

 

Also should I disconnect the vacuum advance when using a timing light?

 

Cheers

 

Flash with a flash gun!

[Don Elliott]

In 50 years with my 1958 TR3A, only once have I tried to set the timing with a timing light at the insistance of my neighbour who had one and offered to help. We couldn't do it. That was 18 years ago. So I went back to my trusted method of driving it and advancing the distributor till it started pinking in 3rd gear while accelerating at low revs, then I would retard it till the pinking had gone. I did the same just last month after the car sat all winter in my garage.

[Lord Flashart]

I think you are right Don. Got no place with the timing!

 

However, I did find out what part of the problem is. When I set the static timing by the haynes manual and start the enging it still runs as rough as anything.

I tested each lead with the strobe and all are fine but number one is still missing every so often. This must be the cause of the rough idle. I'm fairly sure the position of the distributer should not cause one lead not to fire.

Over this last week I've changed everything but the distibuter cap. So I'll get a new one tomorrow and try that.

If that doesn't fix it I'm going to take it to the local classic car garage.

 

I really don't want to do this as they've quoted 120 quid to set up the carbs and timing, but I want to at least drive the thing more than a mile at least once this summer!

 

 

Flash

[Menno van Rij]

Good thinking to use the strobe for testing each lead. I think that you should go for the best type of dizzy cap. Try Martin Jay. He responds quickly! Even overhere in Holland, the package that he sent me arrived in two days time!

 

My TR came with a non original dizzy cap when I bought the car. After reassembling the car (that's an other story), the car started fine. I went to a British Car Festival in Holland and bought a brand new, TRish Lucas dizzy cap. After installing, the car didn't start. There was not even a spark at the plugs! Back to the old-but-not-original cap... And the car ran perfectly. So, be careful when you buy your new dizzy cap! That's why I've obtained some goodies from Martin.

 

Menno

[Paul Down]

I tested each lead with the strobe and all are fine but number one is still missing every so often. This must be the cause of the rough idle. I'm fairly sure the position of the distributer should not cause one lead not to fire.

Over this last week I've changed everything but the distibuter cap. So I'll get a new one tomorrow and try that.

If that doesn't fix it I'm going to take it to the local classic car garage.

Flash

 

Assuming your valve gear and carburation are OK it is worth looking at the distributor itself, when they are worn they can give rise to many faults. Hopefully a new cap will sort your problems but if not try and assess if there is much free play in the distributor shaft. If there is I may be able to locate a decent one for you to try.

 

Best of luck

[Lord Flashart]

Assuming your valve gear and carburation are OK it is worth looking at the distributor itself, when they are worn they can give rise to many faults. Hopefully a new cap will sort your problems but if not try and assess if there is much free play in the distributor shaft. If there is I may be able to locate a decent one for you to try.

 

Best of luck

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

 

There is virtually no play in the shaft, so I'm hoping it's just the cap. I hear what you are saying about valve gear and carburation, but when I'm using the strobe on number one lead the light flashes intermittantly so I think it must be electrical. If the other things were out I would still get a spark albeit at the incorrect time and for the wrong mixture.

 

All let you know how I get on!

 

Flash

[Andrew Smith]

.........but when I'm using the strobe on number one lead the light flashes intermittantly so I think it must be electrical.

 

Worth investing in a set of silicon leads, I use Cobalt from Moss and they're excellent; these together with a rotor arm from Martin Jay sorted out my misfire.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Lord Flashart]

Well I give up.

 

I changed the cap and the electrical misfire disappeared. Great.

 

Tried to set the timing as per the book. Runs like ****.

 

Tried the advance until the revs increase, the revs are decreasing when I turn the distributer inti-clockwise??

 

Drove the car and listened for pinking, kept backing off untill it stoped. Car is almost undrivable at low revs.

 

When checking the timing with the light the spark seems steady and not moving much at all. But the car is still running rough.

 

All I can think of is that the carbs might still be out of tune, but the plugs are a nice grey colour

 

This car is becoming a money pit I can't afford.

 

I'm shutting the garage and leaving the damm thing alone for a while.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Lord Flashart

[jonlar]

Are the auto advance/retard and vacuum A/R working correctly, if fitted? Also if plugs are a "nice grey" colour, I think there's something wrong with timing or too weak a mixture, they should be a grey to medium brown colour, not black (too rich, or timing retarded) or white (too weak, or timing too far advanced) unless these colours have changed with the advent and use of unleaded? Amount of oil being burnt will also alter plug colour.

Edited May 28, 2008 by jonlar