SloTR6 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Hello, I recently acquired a 63 TR4, unfortunately it was involved in a bad accident..... totaled It came with a British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate. On line 9. Destination (dealer) it reads "Standard Triumph Motor Company Inc., New York, USA, for L/Cdr. G.E. Stahl (ex-Works car)". My question is this, could this have been an ex-Works car? Nothing appears to be special about the car. Am I misunderstanding the term "ex-Works car"? Any help will be very much appreciated. Cheers, Rob San Luis Obispo Ca. USA Edited January 1, 2008 by SloTR6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaguar Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hello, I recently acquired a 63 TR4, unfortunately it was involved in a bad accident..... totaled It came with a British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate. On line 9. Destination (dealer) it reads "Standard Triumph Motor Company Inc., New York, USA, for L/Cdr. G.E. Stahl (ex-Works car)". My question is this, could this have been an ex-Works car? Nothing appears to be special about the car. Am I misunderstanding the term "ex-Works car"? Any help will be very much appreciated. Cheers, Rob San Luis Obispo Ca. USA Hi Rob, Cant help you with your question about the heritage certificate, but just wanted to mention that i have a full set of 4 wings, bonnet, and bootlid, all Stanpart, all taken off my TR4a 25 years ago and dry stored, i`m selling the lot as a whole, maybe you might be interested ?? Regards Billy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hi Rob, In order to check records to determine whether your car was originally a "works car", you would need to post the Commisssion number being a CT prefix between 1 and 40304 found on the stamped plate in the engine bay, or from the "Birth Certificate" that came with the car. The term "Works Car" may not necessarily mean competition, as it could have been a factory demonstrator (road tests) or press car, and therefore have remained in standard trim. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloTR6 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hi Billy and Viv, The car needs more than wings, the floor pan is buckled in several places, the only thing salvageable is the interior and drive train. It looks like the frame may be OK, not sure yet. I have another TR4, also a 1963, body is OK, but needs a new engine and interior. If there was something special about the new one, I'd be inclined to switch tags and keep it alive. My original TR4 has its original plates, something not that all that common here in California. Viv, the chassis number is CT22268-L on new car, my other one's chassis number is CT22305-L, only 37 cars later. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jellison Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hi Billy and Viv, The car needs more than wings, the floor pan is buckled in several places, the only thing salvageable is the interior and drive train. It looks like the frame may be OK, not sure yet. I have another TR4, also a 1963, body is OK, but needs a new engine and interior. If there was something special about the new one, I'd be inclined to switch tags and keep it alive. My original TR4 has its original plates, something not that all that common here in California. Viv, the chassis number is CT22268-L on new car, my other one's chassis number is CT22305-L, only 37 cars later. Cheers, Rob Maybe it is one of the Ex-Works SHOTWheelbase Cars;) On a more serios note Ex-Works is often used as a car that was registered while at the factory (does not have to have anything special about it) - just used within the Triumph company until sold on outside of the Triumph factory / dealer structure. Some times Demonstrator cars are ex-works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloTR6 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 LOL It looks like between you and Viv, that the term ex-Works doesn't refer just to race prepped cars. I feel better that the car wasn't so special, as it will be used as a parts car. Looking at the options it came with the "demo" idea seems to right. The car was originally sold with a hard top, Surry top, leather trim. and rear seat. All of which are long missing the other options are still there, heater, wire wheels (not original any more), windscreen washer, veneer trim to facia. Thanks for the help. Cheers, Rob San Luis Obispo USA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 LOLIt looks like between you and Viv, that the term ex-Works doesn't refer just to race prepped cars. I feel better that the car wasn't so special, as it will be used as a parts car. Looking at the options it came with the "demo" idea seems to right. The car was originally sold with a hard top, Surry top, leather trim. and rear seat. All of which are long missing the other options are still there, heater, wire wheels (not original any more), windscreen washer, veneer trim to facia. Thanks for the help. Cheers, Rob San Luis Obispo USA Rob do you have anything to do with the guys at the old orphanage Brit car dealers in San Luis. I looked in there last time I was over and found them very helpful. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Rob Many years ago ,in my youth, I had to deal with export documentation. The term's legal context is where the seller "fulfils his obligation to deliver the goods available at his premises ( i.e. works,factory wharehouse ) to the buyer". Any costs after handover at the works/factory...re transportation, export duties, insurance,dock charges etc would be at the buyers' expense. Since the Heritage certification would be checked against available "paperwork" I suspect that this is the simple explanation. However, my colleagues comments still remain valid and further investigation is the only way to check it out Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 It looks like between you and Viv, that the term ex-Works doesn't refer just to race prepped cars. I feel better that the car wasn't so special, as it will be used as a parts car. Looking at the options it came with the "demo" idea seems to right. The car was originally sold with a hard top, Surry top, leather trim. and rear seat. Rob, Before you break the car and irrevocably trash the major lumps of metal, I suggest you contact the TR4/4A registrar, Jon Marshall. I don't think he uses this forum very often but his contact details are in TRaction or you can write or email him via the TR Register office. It would be sad to find out later that the car has some interesting history. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Maybe it is one of the Ex-Works SHOTWheelbase Cars;) On a more serios note Ex-Works is often used as a car that was registered while at the factory (does not have to have anything special about it) - just used within the Triumph company until sold on outside of the Triumph factory / dealer structure. Some times Demonstrator cars are ex-works. Hi Rob I agree with Jellison, in so much as the Trust has written down literally what they found. Sorry, its not a long lost 'works' car !! I've spent the last 25 yrs in the motor trade and for those of you that can remember Purchase Tax, its the key. Cars that were supplied Ex Works were pre-Purchase tax, i.e. sold pre tax point to dealers or special interest groups. ALL cars (then) were ex works until the point of registration which was the tax point when Purchase tax was applied to the sales transaction. You could buy a car 'ex-works' and in theory keep it for ten years prior to registration. During the period from leaving the factory gates to point and date of registration it was ex works! This is a UK thing mainly but local taxes apply world wide and UK overseas distributors would have used the expression. It must have been written down somewhere on the paper work trail and then transposed to the Trust Certificate Sorry ! Nice to think that all our were once 'Ex-Works' though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloTR6 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Stuart, As a matter of fact I'm good friends with Peter the owner of the shop. He was the one who I purchased the car from. He had just bought it to resell when his mechanic and son (also a mechanic) were hit at a stop light . Fortunately, no one was hurt seriously, although they are still sore. Its amazing what a small world it is that you know of British Sports Cars here in San Luis Obispo. I'll be sure to tell Peter you asked about him. It is true they are a GREAT bunch there! Cheers, Rob San Luis Obispo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloTR6 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Mike, So close to greatness, even if it was only a fleeting dream Regardless, the car is special to me. It will be fun to get the old girl back on the road again, like she deserves. Brian, unfortunately, only the driver's front wing and hood escaped serious damage, even the floor pan buckled and pulled away from the seams. I am saving and cataloging everything that can be saved. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Rob, Thanks for telling us about this car. Glad to hear no one was seriously hurt. From your photos it look as though the car was in pretty good pre accident condition so it's a shame it has finished up as it has. It is also interesting to note that a mid 1963 car had a factory fitted wood veneer facia. I knew that they were fitted to US market cars only towards the end of TR4 production but as far as I know no one is too sure when they first became available like this. Mid 63 is certainly earlier than I had assumed. Regards Trevor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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