anti roll bars

[pfenlon]

In the course of rebuilding the suspension, I am told by one major TR supplier that I dont really need a front anti roll bar.

 

Another prominent supplier says that a front anti rollbar really improves the cars handling.

 

The second supplier also says a rear anti roll bar will also improve the handling.

 

So my questions to you are 1 does a front anti roll bar improve the handling, ( at £220 its not cheap )

 

and will a rear anti roll bar further improve the handlig (at £ 330 its not cheap either )

 

My own guess is that a front Anti roll bar would improve the handling but I would have thought the rear suspension (I have 25% uprated lever shocks, and new uprated springs) would be

rigid enough.

 

Can you tell me from your own experiences

 

regards

 

Peter

[djnorhythm]

While I can't speak from personal experience with the TRs, I can say that on just about every other kind of vehicle out there, the answers are Yes and Yes.

 

In my honest oppinion, the first supplier was probably talking out of his hind end.

 

When I get my TR3, I am going to make sure that it has them.

 

Good luck.

 

 

In the course of rebuilding the suspension, I am told by one major TR supplier that I dont really need a front anti roll bar.

 

Another prominent supplier says that a front anti rollbar really improves the cars handling.

 

The second supplier also says a rear anti roll bar will also improve the handling.

 

So my questions to you are 1 does a front anti roll bar improve the handling, ( at £220 its not cheap )

 

and will a rear anti roll bar further improve the handlig (at £ 330 its not cheap either )

 

My own guess is that a front Anti roll bar would improve the handling but I would have thought the rear suspension (I have 25% uprated lever shocks, and new uprated springs) would be

rigid enough.

 

Can you tell me from your own experiences

 

regards

 

Peter

[littlejim]

The following quote from 'High Speed-Low Cost' by Alan Staniforth will give you something to mull over.

 

" Roll Bars - What a roll bar does is to force more of the car's weight on to the outside wheel in a corner and so give it more to do, increasing its slip angle and destroying its grip earlier, so that is really a negative approach in every way. This is not to say we can do without them, but to stiffen and stiffen a roll-bar finally produces a solid suspension. So keep them as soft as is commensurate with any result at all."

[Tr4Tony]

Hi

 

Front is essential, but think about thickness of bar and mounting types. The thinner and floppier, the less hard it works, so the less stiffening you get.

 

In my mind the rear is less clear ...... but im just fitting one to my TR4 .....

 

Regards

 

Tony

[littlejim]

My interpretation of what Mr Staniforth is saying is that the anti-roll bar is going to make the outside tyre let go earlier than it would have without the roll bar, because it is now coping with greater forces than it had to without the roll bar. This doesn't seem to qualify as 'better handling'.

however if you are sitting inside and the body leans over like billyo you are going to feel as though the car might roll and if you are a hotshot you might also have lost sight of the apex of the curve, heaven forbid.

Sounds as though you go for one that makes you feel safe/comfortable on the corners but don't work under the illusion that your car is 'handling' better.

 

He also has some interesting comments on spring rates, based on his personal experience with the Terrapin racer, where the stiffer springs just made his tyres do more of the work on corners, also increasing their slip angle and increasing their propensity to let go earlier. His book is a fascinating read.

Edited March 18, 2007 by littlejim

[Richard Crawley]

Fit one on the front but I probably wouldn't bother with the rear unless your doing track days or racing.

[pfenlon]

My interpretation of what Mr Staniforth is saying is that the anti-roll bar is going to make the outside tyre let go earlier than it would have without the roll bar, because it is now coping with greater forces than it had to without the roll bar. This doesn't seem to qualify as 'better handling'.

however if you are sitting inside and the body leans over like billyo you are going to feel as though the car might roll and if you are a hotshot you might also have lost sight of the apex of the curve, heaven forbid.

Sounds as though you go for one that makes you feel safe/comfortable on the corners but don't work under the illusion that your car is 'handling' better.

 

He also has some interesting comments on spring rates, based on his personal experience with the Terrapin racer, where the stiffer springs just made his tyres do more of the work on corners, also increasing their slip angle and increasing their propensity to let go earlier. His book is a fascinating read.

 

Thanks for your help jim, this Staniforth feller sounds as though he might be worth a trip to the library.

 

regards

 

Peter

[pfenlon]

While I can't speak from personal experience with the TRs, I can say that on just about every other kind of vehicle out there, the answers are Yes and Yes.

 

In my honest oppinion, the first supplier was probably talking out of his hind end.

 

When I get my TR3, I am going to make sure that it has them.

 

Good luck.

 

So far it seems a pair are the way to go.

 

regards

 

Peter

[pfenlon]

Hi

 

Front is essential, but think about thickness of bar and mounting types. The thinner and floppier, the less hard it works, so the less stiffening you get.

 

In my mind the rear is less clear ...... but im just fitting one to my TR4 .....

 

Regards

 

Tony

 

Thanks for the input Tony,

it seems as though a pair are the way to go, It appears that you are a bit of an ace ventura wheelman, ( or getaway driver ) where are you getting your Roll bars from, if thats not

an impertinent question.

regards

Peter

[pfenlon]

Fit one on the front but I probably wouldn't bother with the rear unless your doing track days or racing.

 

Thanks Richard, the body is off at the moment, and its so much easier to fettle, you are probably right on the money but I think I will fit a pair.

regards

Peter

[david ferry]

Peter,

 

I suspect you have spoken to Revington TR.

 

I have a TR3a with their full suspension set up, including front and rear anti roll bars.

 

It is great to drive, well engineered and the whole package works well together.

 

My TR4 rally car suspension has undergone a similar rebuild process.

 

Be careful about buying non-standard parts from different places, they may not work well together due to different design and specification, even though they are all properly designed and well made.

 

Regards

 

David

[MadMarx]

I am far away from being an expert but there are some general rules about swaybars to know.

 

First:

A front swaybar induce understeer

A rear swaybar induce oversteer

 

That is very general spoken.

 

So if your car has a loose rear a front swaybar will lower the front end grip to the level of the rear and balance the car out.

If you car does understeer without a swaybar a rear swaybar can balance the rear end.

 

With two swaybars you can make them adjustable and balance the car with both and you have the advantage of less body roll which gives a better cornering performance because the tires does remain in a better angle to the road surface and don't roll on the edge.

 

I have two swaybars on my car and can fine tune the balance to have a crisp front end and a slightly loose rear.

 

Cheers

Chris

[tony-qld]

I am far away from being an expert but there are some general rules about swaybars to know.

IFirst:

A front swaybar induce understeer

A rear swaybar induce oversteer

 

That is very general spoken.

 

So if your car has a loose rear a front swaybar will lower the front end grip to the level of the rear and balance the car out.

If you car does understeer without a swaybar a rear swaybar can balance the rear end.

 

With two swaybars you can make them adjustable and balance the car with both and you have the advantage of less body roll which gives a better cornering performance because the tires does remain in a better angle to the road surface and don't roll on the edge.

 

I have two swaybars on my car and can fine tune the balance to have a crisp front end and a slightly loose rear.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

I am running a front anti roll bar with adjustable spax shox on the back. My suspension is lowered 1.5 inches all round and I have 6X15 rims. The thing handles like a Go Kart but I must admit that sometimes I wish that I couild soften the spax off a bit. I also have wondered about fitting a rear bar but anything that enables me to increase my cornering speed probably wouldnt be good for my health or my license. I took a corner a bit quick at 6,30am on Sunday and came face to face with a bloody Kangaroo in the middle of the road. I just managed to miss him but the rest of my sunday morning drive was at a more sedate pace.

[Andrew Smith]

I took a corner a bit quick at 6,30am on Sunday and came face to face with a bloody Kangaroo in the middle of the road.

 

Tony, I'll have a crate what you'd been drinking!

 

Cheers (hic!)

Andrew

[tony-qld]

Tony, I'll have a crate what you'd been drinking!

 

Cheers (hic!)

Andrew

The Hallucinations dont happen as much when I remember my pills. Kangaroos are a real and very dangerous problem for a small car in Rural Queensland in the early morning and evening.

[pfenlon]

Peter,

 

I suspect you have spoken to Revington TR.

 

I have a TR3a with their full suspension set up, including front and rear anti roll bars.

 

It is great to drive, well engineered and the whole package works well together.

 

My TR4 rally car suspension has undergone a similar rebuild process.

 

Be careful about buying non-standard parts from different places, they may not work well together due to different design and specification, even though they are all properly designed and well made.

 

Regards

 

David

 

David you are correct, I had a revington rack and pinion and have bought their springs front and rear, but got my 25% uprated lever shocks from another supplier but fitted avo front shocks

again from reving ton.

 

before I went the whole hog (with roll bars)I thought I would ask for advice on the forum, and I'm pleased that I did, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT.

REGARDS

Peter

[pfenlon]

I am far away from being an expert but there are some general rules about swaybars to know.

 

First:

A front swaybar induce understeer

A rear swaybar induce oversteer

 

That is very general spoken.

 

So if your car has a loose rear a front swaybar will lower the front end grip to the level of the rear and balance the car out.

If you car does understeer without a swaybar a rear swaybar can balance the rear end.

 

With two swaybars you can make them adjustable and balance the car with both and you have the advantage of less body roll which gives a better cornering performance because the tires does remain in a better angle to the road surface and don't roll on the edge.

 

I have two swaybars on my car and can fine tune the balance to have a crisp front end and a slightly loose rear.

 

Cheers

 

 

Chris

 

thanks chris I am going for 2.

[MadMarx]

Good idea.

Make them adjustable.

At trackdays stiffen the rear bar a little more than for road use.

[david ferry]

Adjustability is a doddle with the Revington parts.

 

They are designed that way.

 

David