boxer Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Have 2 trailing arms that i have just found and would like to know what dampers and brackets to fit while i have the rear suspension out.I do not want anything that has to be welded and preferabley chassis mounted brackets .Advice please Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 The brackets that bolt directly onto the lever arm damper bracket are the easiest to fit & I have these fitted with Spax gas shocks all round; these are available from all the major TR specialists. There is also a coil over shock conversion that mounts the shock inside the rear spring but these are more expensive & need some modifications to fit & require a special order shock; in my view these are only really worth considering if you want to go racing. Don’t whatever you do fit the cheap & nasty brackets that bolt through the wheel arches, they will eventually destroy the bodywork. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheeler Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Boxer I fitted brackets and Koni shocks from CTM Engineering see http://www.ctmengineering.co.uk/index.htm they transformed the rear end. Although they are supposed to be the best they cannot unlike Spax be adjusted without removing them but the setting CTM gave seems to be fine. Regards Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Hi Boxer, I went for the CTM set up, which as Richard says, attaches to the lever arm mounts and the bump stop. TRRevington do a coil over - I think Harry (NLG?) has that one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 The brackets that bolt directly onto the lever arm damper bracket are the easiest to fit & I have these fitted with Spax gas shocks all round; these are available from all the major TR specialists. There is also a coil over shock conversion that mounts the shock inside the rear spring but these are more expensive & need some modifications to fit & require a special order shock; in my view these are only really worth considering if you want to go racing. Don't whatever you do fit the cheap & nasty brackets that bolt through the wheel arches, they will eventually destroy the bodywork. Richard, with this conversion what happens when the rear suspension is fully extended ?. The levers have a rubber stop that transfers the load to the frame. Is there a bump stop that engages with this conversion or does the shock/bracket have to act as the bump stop on full extension ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jellison Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Boxer I fitted brackets and Koni shocks from CTM Engineering see http://www.ctmengineering.co.uk/index.htm they transformed the rear end. Although they are supposed to be the best they cannot unlike Spax be adjusted without removing them but the setting CTM gave seems to be fine. Regards Bill can't re adjusted without removing - that is pointless! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
67_gt6 Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) can't re adjusted without removing - that is pointless! Such is the nature of a Koni damper, and in this case I think it's a small price to pay for the quality of the bracketry CTM provide. On a road car I don't suppose you would have any call to readjust them once you had them set the way you want them. Plus, strictly speaking, you would only really have to detach one end to adjust. Edited February 19, 2007 by 67_gt6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Richard, with this conversion what happens when the rear suspension is fully extended ?. The levers have a rubber stop that transfers the load to the frame. Is there a bump stop that engages with this conversion or does the shock/bracket have to act as the bump stop on full extension ? Stan The tele shock has rubber sandwich bushes top & bottom, as you jack the rear of the car up the shock just extends to it’s full length until it can’t go any further holding the trailing arm in that position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 can't re adjusted without removing - that is pointless! It's rather a pain but I wouldn't say it was pointless. Being able to adjust the shocks easily is a big advantage while you’re playing around but once it’s set up how you like it, you’re unlikely to move them again unless you go racing or track day’s. Easy adjustment was a factor in my choosing Spax but, to be honest, the biggest beef I had was the price of Konis; I just couldn’t see why they should be so much more expensive than other brands! Koni seem to have built up a high profile with the go faster brigade over the years &, basically, I think they play on this & charge whatever they think they can get away with. In my view, Spax are equally as good & I’ve certainly not been disappointed with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxer Posted February 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks to all who have replied.I think when you get answers as quick as i have it proves the value of this facility.Is it my imagination is the web site running faster? Boxer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 The tele shock has rubber sandwich bushes top & bottom, as you jack the rear of the car up the shock just extends to it’s full length until it can’t go any further holding the trailing arm in that position. Hi Richard, I must disagree with you on the above comment, the trailing arms shouldn't be limited in the amount of movement by the hamper, the shafts are designed for compressive forces rather than being stretched .............................? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Boxer I fitted brackets and Koni shocks from CTM Engineering see http://www.ctmengineering.co.uk/index.htm they transformed the rear end. Although they are supposed to be the best they cannot unlike Spax be adjusted without removing them but the setting CTM gave seems to be fine. Regards Bill Hi Bill Out of curiosity - do you know what setting you have on the Konis? I set mine at 'half way' and certainly noticed a marked improvement, though whether further adjustment would be beneficial I haven't tried... Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Hi Richard, I must disagree with you on the above comment, the trailing arms shouldn't be limited in the amount of movement by the hamper, the shafts are designed for compressive forces rather than being stretched .............................? Under all practical driving conditions (unless you leave the ground while yumping!), the movement of the trailing arms is not at all limited by the extent of damper travel; as I said in my post, the trailing arms will only drop the lowest extent of the damper travel when you jack the rear wheels unsupported off the ground; I didn’t design the rear tele conversion suspension brackets, that’s the way they are! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Under all practical driving conditions (unless you leave the ground while yumping!), the movement of the trailing arms is not at all limited by the extent of damper travel; as I said in my post, the trailing arms will only drop the lowest extent of the damper travel when you jack the rear wheels unsupported off the ground; I didn't design the rear tele conversion suspension brackets, that's the way they are! I think the question is would you ever get into a situation under even abnormal use when you would force that shock to fully extend and become the bump stop. Ie is there a corner you can take or a bump or dip you can traverse that would do this or is it so extreme that you would have more to worry about if you got into this state (like where is the nearest hospital :-) ). The TR designers decided they needed a bump stop to limit the downward travel of the lever arms but maybe they just wanted to stop the lever from hitting the frame as they dont seem to have worried about a stop to limit full extension on the front.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi Stan, on the front there is a more conservative arrangement, unlike the with telescopic slined drive shafts at the rear...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 The TR designers decided they needed a bump stop to limit the downward travel of the lever arms but maybe they just wanted to stop the lever from hitting the frame as they dont seem to have worried about a stop to limit full extension on the front.. Exactly right, the rear bump stop is there merely to prevent the lever arm crashing into the chassis at the limit of travel; if anything, the tele conversion gives slightly more travel than the original lever unit! I think you will find that most independent suspensions limit the arc of travel of the suspension arm by the length of the shock absorber fitted to it, as indeed does the front suspension; how else could you easily do it! Just to pick up on an earlier comment, shock absorbers are designed to work in both directions! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheeler Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi Bill Out of curiosity - do you know what setting you have on the Konis? I set mine at 'half way' and certainly noticed a marked improvement, though whether further adjustment would be beneficial I haven't tried... Cheers Hi Ian Could not remember the setting - a couple of years since I fitted them so I rang CTM - there are 13/4 turns to max and then back off 3/4 to 1 turn for normal road use, so it sounds as if your setting is ok. Adjustment instructions are on the Koni website http://www.koni.com/index.html Cheers Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi Bill, those that CTM supplied to me, have about 9/4 turns ie around 780º, which is adjusted by detaching the bottom end, fully compress damper and rotate - mark central position and experiment from there - both sides need to be as close as possible to keep the balance and handle safely. Hi Richard, been thinking more, unless you're flying off a hump back bridge or something, it wouldn't be a hugely significant shock loading on the damper shaft, so am more swayed to your point of view now! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jellison Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 We have CTM on theracer - but Spax just for these season - been sitting in a box for ages as had the trick Vanguard (or something like that) level arm that have 21 way adjusteron from RCT (but in a differnec class now). SPax or OK. Not tried Koni's on the back - have them on the front of the 4 racer - but the these have koni sports are not made anymore I think. Remote Reservoir Penskes are the BEST - Tad expensive though............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I have Koni's on my 6 all around and there are some observations I like to do on previous posts. As far as I know Koni's only work in one direction, this was told to me by a friend who is racing TR's. For that reason they do not use Koni's on the front suspension. They slightly slow down spring extension, but they are not damping The second observation is on full extension without stops. In the garage where come, free lance and unpaid we use to run sometimes 6's on axle stands to check bearings or noises on the rear end. While this is no problem with the standard setup, it's not possible with telescopic dampers, the limitation probably lies in the overstressing of the halfshafts U-joints I have seen several 6's where an additional bracket with a bump stop was added to limit the angle in the U-joints. As said before, for normal road use it will create no problems as long as the rear wheels stay on the ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 As far as I know, on most telescopic dampers, the damping force on compression(=wheel rising) is only about 20% of the force on extension (= wheel drooping) . If damping on compression would be strong, the body is strongly pushed upwards when a wheel is meeting a bump, thus unsettling the car, especially in a bend,because much weight is removed of the other wheel of the same axle too. Some very special race shocks do exist : they are damping strongly on compression too, but when a wheel meets a steep bump, the valve that is providing the damping force on compression is bypassed, allowing the wheel to rise without pushing the body upwards... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jellison Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have Koni's on my 6 all around and there are some observations I like to do on previous posts. As far as I know Koni's only work in one direction, this was told to me by a friend who is racing TR's. For that reason they do not use Koni's on the front suspension.Who told you that! That is MAD. Better take them off my TR4 Racer (just kidding!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have Koni's on my 6 all around and there are some observations I like to do on previous posts. As far as I know Koni's only work in one direction, this was told to me by a friend who is racing TR's. For that reason they do not use Koni's on the front suspension. They slightly slow down spring extension, but they are not damping The second observation is on full extension without stops. In the garage where come, free lance and unpaid we use to run sometimes 6's on axle stands to check bearings or noises on the rear end. While this is no problem with the standard setup, it's not possible with telescopic dampers, the limitation probably lies in the overstressing of the halfshafts U-joints I have seen several 6's where an additional bracket with a bump stop was added to limit the angle in the U-joints. As said before, for normal road use it will create no problems as long as the rear wheels stay on the ground. Thats a good point about running on stands with the transmission engaged. I've done that myself in the past and I can see that it might be an issue with the telescopic conversion. Do you recall how and where the additional brakets were attached to limit the trailing arm travel when jacked up ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) Jelly, I'm speaking about standard Koni Classics, that's what WE normally use on our cars. Should have mentioned it. Anyhow if you know better come to the Continent and try to beat this poor amateurs Edited February 28, 2007 by jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jellison Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Jelly, I'm speaking about standard Koni Classics, that's what WE normally use on our cars. Should have mentioned it. Anyhow if you know better come to the Continent and try to beat this poor amateurs Have to check but think that is what is on the TR4 on the front from RCT - pretty good. I might be over at Spa late in the year in the 6 (if have the cash!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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